[RE-wrenches] Fwd: Outback Grid Problems

Tue Mar 30 15:53:21 PDT 2010

I believe your client is right that the Outback Inverters are an inverter *
or* a charger but not both at the same time.....Also......just curious?  why
are they using their batteries to power loads if the grid is present?  It
seems they would do this occasionally to exercise the batteries if they
haven't been used in a while but if they are simply maintained as full then
they should start the morning ready to sell back power to the grid unless
there has been a power outage during the night and the batteries need
charged.....

-- 
Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o

On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 2:11 PM, R Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com> wrote:

> HI all;
>
> I'm forwarding my very informed customer's comments. AC output voltage
> appears to not be the issue.
> Does anybody have a particularly good contact at Outback?
> It should not be going into charge mode everyday. Perhaps the large battery
> bank is throwing things off?
>
> R. Walters
> ray at solarray.com
> Solar Engineer
>
>
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *"Roger L. Johnson" <rogerjohnson at itltd.com>
> *Date: *March 30, 2010 2:06:42 PM MDT
> *To: *Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
> *Subject: **Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems*
>
> Ray – I have been selling solidly at approx. 2 kW since about 1100 hours
> (MDT) this morning. The output voltage (AC) is 124 VAC and steady with an
> output current to KCE of 7 aac. The house load is ranging between 200-800
> watts. I expect the  system will now continue to sell throughout the
> remainder of the day.
>
> Today’s Sequence: I ran the house load off of the batteries throughout the
> night (AC in DROP mode). Prior to the system beginning its morning wakeup
> sequence, the battery voltage was 24.8. I then put the system on the grid
> (AC in USE mode). As expected, the system came up, shut down the inverters
> and quickly went into CHARGING mode. I then manually killed the BULK
> charging cycle and the system went into PASS THRU mode. Then I monitored the
> connected (new array) CCs and watched while both new and old arrays
> recharged the batteries. As the battery voltage passed through 26 VDC the
> system remained in PASS THRU mode. I then watched as the batteries passed
> through 27.2 VDC (Float Level threshold) and the system still remained in
> PASS THRU mode. As the battery voltage went above the FLOAT threshold for
> some time, the connected CCs indicated GT MODE and soon after that the
> system began selling.
>
> What seems clear to me at this time:
>
> Each morning, no matter what, the system will initiate a charging cycle. It
> appears to be the case that as long as the system is in the CHARGING mode,
> it cannot invert for either load use or for selling back. It also appears to
> be the case that there are a number of system parameters which need to meet
> a specific criteria (not provided in the manuals) for the CHARGING mode to
> be terminated. If these conditions are not met, the system will go through
> an entire charging cycle(many hours) and may never complete the criteria
> before the end of the day even though the sun has come out (or the arrays
> clear of snow). This seems to be why, following snow days, the system often
> never gets out of the CHARGING mode. Remember that in the ABSORB and FLOAT
> modes, the CCs restrict the power coming off the arrays. Plus, these modes
> require “countups” (1 hour each) to complete before terminating the CHARGING
> mode. Note the statement made in the MATE manual on page 62, second
> paragraph from the bottom. It speaks of “charge parameters met mode”. So it
> is clear that this is not just a case of the battery voltage exceeding 26
> VDC. There is also another reference to running in grid-tie mode which
> indicates that the CCs FLOAT threshold voltage should be set 0.5 volts
> higher than the FLOAT threshold of the FX. On this system, they are both set
> to the same value, 27.2 VDC.
>
> I suspect that your earlier systems were not as “interconnected” as this
> system and did not have as large a battery bank. Let’s continue the
> investigation. What would be very helpful is if you could extract two items
> from Outback, one, being the “charge parameters” which determine the sell
> criteria, and two, a detailed explanation of STOP SELL codes. There is a
> cryptic list of STOP SELL reasons on the bottom of page 47 of the MATE
> manual. Most of these do not make sense, for example, I cannot tell what it
> means to say “R60 off” or “save command”. Another question, if a STOP SELL
> is executed by the MATE, do you have to wait until the next midnight for
> this to be cleared? In other words, can the system lock itself out of SELL
> mode for the rest of the day?
>
> RLJ
> Taos home: 575-776-3960
>
>
>
>
> on 3/30/10 12:58 PM, Ray Walters at ray at solarray.com wrote:
>
> I think we need to revisit Kit Carson being the problem. It may be as
> simple as having them lower the transformer voltage slightly.
> Its really a big system out there on the very end of the line.
>
> R. Walters
> ray at solarray.com
> Solar Engineer
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> *From: *toddcory at finestplanet.com
> *Date: *March 30, 2010 12:49:05 PM MDT
> *To: *"RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> *Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback Grid Problems
> Reply-To: *RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> Ray, what is the AC output voltage at the inverters while they are selling?
> If it goes too high (too small of a delivery wire) you will have to raise
> the sell voltage by specifying "USER" in the mate.
>
> Todd
>
> On Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:42am, "R Ray Walters" <ray at solarray.com>
> said:
>
> > We currently have a Grid Tie system with a pair of Outback inverters that
> are
> > regularly dropping out of sell mode, and letting the arrays spend all day
> charging
> > the battery bank.
> > It seems to do this several times a week, and the customer is losing
> substantial
> > production, and gassing the batteries too much.
> > It will reset itself the next day, or the customer resets it by turning
> off the
> > inverters manually.
> > The system is 24 v, with an old array of 1800 watts running through 2
> FM60s, and a
> > new array of 2800 watts running through another pair of FM60s.
> > The battery bank is HUP about 4100 Ah @ 24 v (3 strings of 1375 Ah each)
> Big
> > battery, I know, but the customer is an electrical engineer, who wanted
> maximum
> > storage capacity.
> >
> > Outback tech support has not resolved the issue, and this has turned into
> several
> > service calls, and customer frustration.
> > We've tried running the controllers through the HUB, and also
> independently, and
> > that doesn't make a difference.
> > I have numerous Outback GT installs dating back to 2003, and have never
> had a
> > problem like this.
> > Any help or advice would as always be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > Thank you in advance fellow Wrenches,
> >
> > R. Walters
> > ray at solarray.com
> > Solar Engineer
> >
> >
> >
> >
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-- 
Sunny Regards,
Kirpal Khalsa
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer
Renewable Energy Systems
www.oregonsolarworks.com
541-218-0201 m
541-592-3958 o
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