[RE-wrenches] wrenches] NABCEP website ideas
Jeff Clearwater
jeffc at villagepower.com
Sun Mar 14 12:45:12 PDT 2010
Hi All,
Yes on the NABCEP list ideas - both are good with me!
Best,
Jeff C.
>Allan,
> Ditto Ray's remarks.
>
>John Blittersdorf
>Central Vermont Solar & Wind
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: R Ray Walters <ray at solarray.com>
>To: Allan at positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches
><re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>Sent: Sun, Mar 14, 2010 2:12 pm
>Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP website ideas
>
>Both ideas are simple and make good sense. I think listing the
>number of years certified is a strong reason I'd renew actually,
>otherwise what's the difference between someone who has been
>certified for 6 years vs. 6 months?
>
>R. Walters
><mailto:ray at solarray.com>ray at solarray.com
>Solar Engineer
>
>
>
>
>On Mar 14, 2010, at 12:11 AM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>
>>Wrenches,
>>Recently I wrote to NABCEP with two requests, for changes on the
>>website's public information:
>> 1. In addition to a state-by-state list of certificants, have
>>also a single overall alphabetized list that is not delimited by
>>state, to allow a quick check if an installer who claims
>>certification actually is so.
>> 2. I would like to see the year of initial certification
>>available as part of the published info on NABCEP's certificant
>>listings. I would like to think that this is also a good indicator
>>of an installer's experience as the field (of certificants)
>>continues to get larger.
>>
>>I got thoughtful responses from Ezra and Bob-O. The essence of the
>>back-and-forth discussion follows my signature line. But straight
>>and to the point: Among those of you who are NABCEP Certified PV
>>Installers, what are your opinions about these two ideas? Any
>>responses and discussion will make its way back to NABCEP - I'll
>>see to that.
>>Thanks,
>>Allan
>>
>>--
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>>Allan Sindelar
>><mailto:Allan at positiveenergysolar.com>Allan at positiveenergysolar.com
>>NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
>>EE98J Journeyman Electrician
>>Positive Energy, Inc.
>>3201 Calle Marie
>>Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
>>505 424-1112
>><http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/>www.positiveenergysolar.com
>>
>>
>>[Last post first; earlier posts follow]
>>
>>Hi Allan,
>>As always it's great to "talk" with you. I want to correct a common
>>misunderstanding about the qualifications to sit for the NABCEP
>>Installer Exam. Nothing has changed with respect to experience. The
>>person applying still needs to have been the person responsible for
>>two PV systems sometime over the past two years. You are correct
>>that some time ago we changed the wording to "some time within the
>>past two years" this was to indicate that difference between two
>>complete years of experience and two systems in the past two years
>>(our actual requirement).
>>
>>I can assure you that the likes of Bob-O keep us all very honest
>>when it comes to watering down the qualifications to sit for the
>>exam. The entire exam committee keeps their eye on not "dumbing
>>down" the exam. They want the new achievers to work as hard as you
>>and the other early adopters did.
>>
>>I am not really in favour of the downloadable list because of the
>>spam concerns but I'll happily accede to what the "Certs" want. I'd
>>suggest an informal poll - RE Wrenches perhaps - trying to get some
>>additional buy-in from Certificants. Again that's your call.
>>
>>As to the date first Certified I don't think that should be too
>>difficult but I hate to make promises before I speak the the folks
>>who would actually do the work and find out from them how difficult
>>or time consuming the task would be. I'm going to be in our office
>>later this week and I'll keep you posted.
>>Best regards,
>>Ezra
>>
>>Ezra Auerbach
>>Executive Director
>><mailto:eauerbach at nabcep.org>eauerbach at nabcep.org
>>North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners (NABCEP)
>>634 Plank Road
>>Clifton Park, N.Y. 12065
>>1 800 654 0021
>>1 518 670 4553 Direct
>><http://www.nabcep.org/>www.nabcep.org
>>
>>On 2010-03-01, at 9:01 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
>>Ezra, Bob-O, Tim, Rex,
>>Wow! I appreciate the dialogue that my suggestions engendered, and
>>the fast response.
>>
>>Re the first issue, the national list: like Bob-O, I did not see
>>spam potential as an issue, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about
>>spam control to advise. I have observed that I get far fewer spam
>>messages in my inbox than I did a few years ago - perhaps one or
>>two a day, versus 15-20 maybe 4 years ago, and I haven't changed
>>either email addresses or public visibility.
>>
>>I would consider a national list to be a convenience more than a
>>necessity. You are all aware that I am quite protective of proper
>>use of the logo and any claims of certification - I have shared
>>some of my efforts with you. But I have seldom been hindered by
>>having to check state lists, so it's not a big deal for my needs -
>>more a suggestion. Perhaps there are others for whom this would
>>make a bigger difference.
>>
>>On the other issue, I'll offer two perspectives, closely related.
>>As NABCEP certification becomes widespread and necessary for so
>>many installations, you are most likely experiencing ongoing
>>pressure to certify more installers. I have already seen the
>>qualification standards become diminished - where an applicant once
>>needed to lead at least two installations to qualify, now he or she
>>need only show "experience installing PV systems occurring at some
>>point in the two (2) years prior to submitting an application". And
>>certification is certification, by which I mean that once
>>certified, there are no additional "master" or "graybeard"
>>additional levels available. So this becomes a very simple way to
>>identify how many years an installer has been certified to have the
>>highest qualification level our industry offers.
>>
>>That's the objective perspective. The other is personal: I want to
>>be acknowledged as one of the original 44 (?) that passed the first
>>exam. It's an achievement I don't mind being available to those who
>>care. And it will matter more as the years go by. It's a very easy
>>way to recognize the old timers. It's also the way to recognize the
>>people who saw enough value in the fledgling NABCEP effort to take
>>and pass the exam before it meant anything, and with no idea what
>>it would someday count for.
>>
>>Bob-O, re "I think perhaps we should also consider adding the year
>>that the Certification expires": to me that is a separate issue,
>>and one of not much concern. It's one, two, or three years away -
>>big deal. You're either valid or expired. But if you add expiration
>>year, then also decide whether Certificants who are expired
>>disappear from the list or have "expired" and the year next to
>>their name, but remain on the list as once having been Certified.
>>Unimportant to me, just bouncing around ideas here.
>>
>>One more thing - I hate SurveyMonkey. It requires choosing one of
>>the offered answers, even if none of the choices fits. And you
>>can't skip an unanswerable question. Ugh!
>>
>>Does this help?
>>Allan
>>
>>
>>Ezra Auerbach wrote: I'll wait to hear back from Allan before we
>>make any changes - if in doubt kick the idea around with a few
>>other installer Certs informally and we'll use their responses to
>>gauge if we need a full survey. Work for you?
>>Ezra
>>
>>
>><http://www.nabcep.org/>
>>
>>On 2010-03-01, at 8:02 AM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:
>>The spam thing is something I hadn't considered. Clearly a
>>trade-off. Adding the year of initial certification would take some
>>work, but it's a one-time thing. IF we do that, I think perhaps we
>>should also consider adding the year that the Certification
>>expires. That would be an ongoing chore, but perhaps it could be
>>automated by linked spreadsheets or something.
>>Allan, it's your suggestion. In light of Ezra's thoughts, do you
>>still think alphabetizing the Certificant's names on the website
>>has more merit than the potential anti-spam effect? Personally, I'm
>>not sure the anti-spam thing is that relevant as anyone can copy
>>and paste the current list into another document very easily,
>>although state by state only.
>>Perhaps we should put this out to our Certs for a vote? Via a
>>survey monkey or ...?
>>Bob-O
>>
>>
>>On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:17 AM, Ezra Auerbach wrote:
>>Hi gents,
>>A couple of thoughts. I think we could add year of certification
>>with undue administrative burden-I will want to check with Tim-it
>>will fall to him to implement.
>>With respect to a list, we long ago decided against publishing a
>>complete listing to make it more difficult for spammers.
>>So, it's the Certificants call. Bob-O if you are totally good with
>>the potential of more list spamming it would be easy to post a list.
>>Tawk?
>>Ezra
>>Executive Director
>>NABCEP
>>
>>
>>On 2010-02-28, at 12:52 PM, Bob-O Schultze
>><<mailto:bob-o at electronconnection.com>bob-o at electronconnection.com>
>>wrote:
>>Hiya Allen and All,
>>Both good ideas which I think we could -and should- implement,
>>especially the alphabetizing.
>>Ezra, I think a decision like this is way within your purview.
>>Let's talk about it.
>>Bob-O
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--
Jeff Clearwater
Senior Design Engineer
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
http://www.nabcep.org/
Village Power Design
Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector
http://www.villagepower.com
gosolar at villagepower.com
Voice: 831-427-2799
Fax: 413-825-0703
245 Dufour St
Santa Cruz, CA 95060
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