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ideas</title></head><body>
<div>Hi All,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Yes on the NABCEP list ideas - both are good with me!</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div><br></div>
<div>Jeff C.</div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<div><br></div>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Allan,</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"> Ditto Ray's
remarks.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"> </font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">John Blittersdorf</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Central Vermont Solar & Wind</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: R Ray Walters <ray@solarray.com><br>
To: Allan@positiveenergysolar.com; RE-wrenches
<re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org><br>
Sent: Sun, Mar 14, 2010 2:12 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] NABCEP website ideas</font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000"></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Both ideas are simple and make good sense. I think
listing the number of years certified is a strong reason I'd renew
actually, otherwise what's the difference between someone who has been
certified for 6 years vs. 6 months?</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">R. Walters</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><a href="mailto:ray@solarray.com"><font
face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">ray@solarray.com</font></a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Solar Engineer</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">On Mar 14, 2010, at 12:11 AM, Allan Sindelar
wrote:</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Wrenches,<br>
Recently I wrote to NABCEP with two requests, for changes on the
website's public information:<br>
1. In addition to a state-by-state list of
certificants, have also a single overall alphabetized list that is not
delimited by state, to allow a quick check if an installer who claims
certification actually is so. <br>
2. I would like to see the year of initial
certification available as part of the published info on NABCEP's
certificant listings. I would like to think that this is also a good
indicator of an installer's experience as the field (of certificants)
continues to get larger.<br>
<br>
I got thoughtful responses from Ezra and Bob-O. The essence of the
back-and-forth discussion follows my signature line. But straight and
to the point: Among those of you who are NABCEP Certified PV
Installers, what are your opinions about these two ideas? Any
responses and discussion will make its way back to NABCEP - I'll see
to that.<br>
Thanks,<br>
Allan</font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000"></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
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<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><b>Allan Sindelar</b><br>
</font><a href="mailto:Allan@positiveenergysolar.com"><font
face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Allan@positiveenergysolar.com</font></a><font
face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000"><br>
NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer<br>
EE98J Journeyman Electrician<br>
<b>Positive Energy, Inc.</b><br>
3201 Calle Marie<br>
Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507<br>
<b>505 424-1112</b><br>
</font><a href="http://www.positiveenergysolar.com/"><font
face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">www.positiveenergysolar.com</font></a><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000"></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
[Last post first; earlier posts follow]<br>
<br>
Hi Allan,</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">As always it's great to "talk" with you. I
want to correct a common misunderstanding about the qualifications to
sit for the NABCEP Installer Exam. Nothing has changed with respect to
experience. The person applying still needs to have been the person
responsible for two PV systems sometime over the past two years. You
are correct that some time ago we changed the wording to "some
time within the past two years" this was to indicate that
difference between two complete years of experience and two systems in
the past two years (our actual requirement).</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">I can assure you that the likes of Bob-O keep us all
very honest when it comes to watering down the qualifications to sit
for the exam. The entire exam committee keeps their eye on not
"dumbing down" the exam. They want the new achievers to work
as hard as you and the other early adopters did.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">I am not really in favour of the downloadable list
because of the spam concerns but I'll happily accede to what the
"Certs" want. I'd suggest an informal poll - RE Wrenches
perhaps - trying to get some additional buy-in from Certificants.
Again that's your call.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">As to the date first Certified I don't think that
should be too difficult but I hate to make promises before I speak the
the folks who would actually do the work and find out from them how
difficult or time consuming the task would be. I'm going to be in our
office later this week and I'll keep you posted.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Best regards,</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Ezra</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Ezra Auerbach<br>
Executive Director<br>
</font><a href="mailto:eauerbach@nabcep.org"><font face="Arial"
size="-1" color="#000000">eauerbach@nabcep.org</font></a><font
face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000"><br>
North American Board of Certified Energy Practitioners
(NABCEP)<br>
634 Plank Road<br>
Clifton Park, N.Y. 12065<br>
1 800 654 0021<br>
1 518 670 4553 Direct<br>
</font><a href="http://www.nabcep.org/"><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">www.nabcep.org</font></a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">On 2010-03-01, at 9:01 PM, Allan Sindelar
wrote:</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Ezra, Bob-O, Tim, Rex,<br>
Wow! I appreciate the dialogue that my suggestions engendered, and the
fast response.<br>
<br>
Re the first issue, the national list: like Bob-O, I did not see spam
potential as an issue, and I'm not knowledgeable enough about spam
control to advise. I have observed that I get far fewer spam messages
in my inbox than I did a few years ago - perhaps one or two a day,
versus 15-20 maybe 4 years ago, and I haven't changed either email
addresses or public visibility.<br>
<br>
I would consider a national list to be a convenience more than a
necessity. You are all aware that I am quite protective of proper use
of the logo and any claims of certification - I have shared some of my
efforts with you. But I have seldom been hindered by having to check
state lists, so it's not a big deal for my needs - more a suggestion.
Perhaps there are others for whom this would make a bigger
difference.<br>
<br>
On the other issue, I'll offer two perspectives, closely related. As
NABCEP certification becomes widespread and necessary for so many
installations, you are most likely experiencing ongoing pressure to
certify more installers. I have already seen the qualification
standards become diminished - where an applicant once needed to lead
at least two installations to qualify, now he or she need only show
"experience installing PV systems occurring at some point in the
two (2) years prior to submitting an application". And
certification is certification, by which I mean that once certified,
there are no additional "master" or "graybeard"
additional levels available. So this becomes a very simple way to
identify how many years an installer has been certified to have the
highest qualification level our industry offers.<br>
<br>
That's the objective perspective. The other is personal: I want to be
acknowledged as one of the original 44 (?) that passed the first exam.
It's an achievement I don't mind being available to those who care.
And it will matter more as the years go by. It's a very easy way to
recognize the old timers. It's also the way to recognize the people
who saw enough value in the fledgling NABCEP effort to take and pass
the exam before it meant anything, and with no idea what it would
someday count for.<br>
<br>
Bob-O, re "I think perhaps we should also consider adding the
year that the Certification expires": to me that is a separate
issue, and one of not much concern. It's one, two, or three years away
- big deal. You're either valid or expired. But if you add expiration
year, then also decide whether Certificants who are expired disappear
from the list or have "expired" and the year next to their
name, but remain on the list as once having been Certified.
Unimportant to me, just bouncing around ideas here.<br>
<br>
One more thing - I hate SurveyMonkey. It requires choosing one of the
offered answers, even if none of the choices fits. And you can't skip
an unanswerable question. Ugh!</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
Does this help?<br>
Allan<br>
<br>
<br>
Ezra Auerbach wrote: I'll wait to hear back from Allan before we make
any changes - if in doubt kick the idea around with a few other
installer Certs informally and we'll use their responses to gauge if
we need a full survey. Work for you?<br>
Ezra</font><br>
<font face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000"></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
</font><a href="http://www.nabcep.org/"><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
</font></a></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">On 2010-03-01, at 8:02 AM, Bob-O Schultze
wrote:</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">The spam thing is something I hadn't considered.
Clearly a trade-off. Adding the year of initial certification would
take some work, but it's a one-time thing. IF we do that, I think
perhaps we should also consider adding the year that the Certification
expires. That would be an ongoing chore, but perhaps it could be
automated by linked spreadsheets or something.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Allan, it's your suggestion. In light of Ezra's
thoughts, do you still think alphabetizing the Certificant's names on
the website has more merit than the potential anti-spam effect?
Personally, I'm not sure the anti-spam thing is that relevant as
anyone can copy and paste the current list into another document very
easily, although state by state only.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Perhaps we should put this out to our Certs for a
vote? Via a survey monkey or ...?</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Bob-O</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
<br>
</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">On Mar 1, 2010, at 4:17 AM, Ezra Auerbach
wrote:</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Hi gents,</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">A couple of thoughts. I think we could add year of
certification with undue administrative burden-I will want to check
with Tim-it will fall to him to implement.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">With respect to a list, we long ago decided against
publishing a complete listing to make it more difficult for
spammers.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">So, it's the Certificants call. Bob-O if you are
totally good with the potential of more list spamming it would be easy
to post a list.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Tawk?</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Ezra<br>
Executive Director</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">NABCEP</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br></font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000"><br>
On 2010-02-28, at 12:52 PM, Bob-O Schultze <</font><a
href="mailto:bob-o@electronconnection.com"><font face="Arial"
size="-1"
color="#000000">bob-o@electronconnection.com</font></a><font
face="Arial" size="-1" color="#000000">> wrote:<br>
Hiya Allen and All,</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Both good ideas which I think we could -and should-
implement, especially the alphabetizing.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Ezra, I think a decision like this is way within your
purview. Let's talk about it.</font></blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" cite><font face="Arial" size="-1"
color="#000000">Bob-O</font></blockquote>
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<x-sigsep><pre>--
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<div>Jeff Clearwater<br>
Senior Design Engineer<br>
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer<br>
http://www.nabcep.org/<br>
Village Power Design<br>
Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector<br>
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