[RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem

Darryl Thayer daryl_solar at yahoo.com
Mon Apr 20 11:02:58 PDT 2009 

HI all
I have had a similar problem when I tried to use a relay to control load where the relay switch caused a a disconnect of the AC coupled inverter.  I think that perhaps the abrupt switch of load causes a voltage spike 

But I am not sure.  I think that Logan's approach using a Morning star Tristar, in stead of a relay to control load may be the solution, but I am not sure..  


--- On Mon, 4/20/09, boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com> wrote:

> From: boB Gudgel <boB at midnitesolar.com>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem
> To: 
> Cc: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Date: Monday, April 20, 2009, 11:42 AM
> boB Gudgel wrote:
> > Mark Dickson wrote:
> >> Hi Bob, From what I understand the "State
> 108" code means that the grid frequency is out of
> whack.
> > Frequency and voltage windows are both related to
> anti-islanding detection, so I don't doubt you would
> receive this message.
> > I would be surprised if the error was not a result of
> a high impedance (weak) grid at the inverter.  Lowering the
> voltage at
> > the inverter, like, tapping down a transformer if
> possible (industrial installation?) may be one answer.  I
> remember Daryl
> > Thayer had to do that on one of his grid tie (not AC
> coupled) installs to fix this sort of problem.
> > boB
> > 
> 
> Ooops !   My mind went islanding there on that xformer
> tapping idea !
> (Battery based, not grid tied)
> 
> However, if you are using an OB FX you can lower the AC
> output voltage.   That is another
> option that may help.   OR, try a larger inverter with a
> lower output impedance.   It will be harder
> for the Fronius to "think" the grid frequency is
> being pushed out of the limits.
> Also, have you taken your multi-meter and looked to see
> what the AC voltage is around the time
> the relays trip and errors occur ?  Curious to hear what it
> is.   You might try to look at the frequency
> also, but it may not be out of Fronius' window limit
> long enough to get an accurate reading.
> 
> boB
> 
> 
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >>   It was explained to me by Fronius techs that:
> the IG sends out pulses that if the grid is in good shape it
> is absorbed into the grid.  If the frequency is off then it
> bounces back to the IG triggering the State 108.
> >> Your response does give me something to think
> about though. . .
> >> Mark Dickson
> >> Oasis Montana Inc.
> >> 877-627-4778 toll-free
> >> 406-777-4321 (0830 fax)
> >> www.oasismontana.com
> >>  www.grid-tie.com
> >>  www.PVsolarpumps.com -----Original Message-----
> >> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf
> Of boB Gudgel
> >> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:42 PM
> >> To: RE-wrenches
> >> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem
> >> 
> >> Mark Dickson wrote:
> >> 
> >>  >> the array output climbs above 3000 or so
> watts, we continually get a “State 108” code and shut
> down cycles each time a relay trips on a diversion load...
> >> 
> >> Sounds to me like your diversion load may be too
> small and/or the grid is weak at the Fronius end. When the
> diversion loads suddenly go away due to
> >> their "relays tripping", the
> Fronius', having lots of power to sell, raising the AC
> grid voltage right out of the UL1741 / IEEE Voltage window
> limit (132V ?).
> >> It hen has to shut down and disconnect in order to
> stop the apparent islanding condition. That's probably
> what state 108 is trying to tell you ?
> >> 
> >> Looks like your Fronius inverter is most likely
> working just fine ?
> >> boB
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >>  
> >>> Larry,
> >>> 
> >>> I am having a somewhat similar problem with a
> recently installed IG5100. I have it installed in
> conjunction with an Outback battery based system for AC
> coupling. We have it set up to divert its loads to an
> electric ice melter and then to a large electric heater as
> the battery voltages climb. A third relay cuts the array
> power between the Fronius and the AC panel if the battery
> voltage continues to climb to unsafe levels.
> >>> 
> >>> When we have heavy sunshine and low house
> loads (second home) and the array output climbs above 3000
> or so watts, we continually get a “State 108” code and
> shut down cycles each time a relay trips on a diversion
> load. I have worked with both Outback and Fronius (who have
> been great!) but at this point we are all baffled. I think
> my next step, especially after reading the above post is to
> replace the Fronius. Then as a last resort swap the IG5100
> out to a couple of SMA 3000US’s (a 6000US does not
> configure well with the 28 evergreens).
> >>> 
> >>> Any input from you guys would be greatly
> appreciated!
> >>> 
> >>> Mark Dickson
> >>> 
> >>> Oasis Montana Inc.
> >>> 
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >>> 
> >>> *From:*
> re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *William Miller
> >>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:59 PM
> >>> *To:* RE-wrenches
> >>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000
> problem
> >>> 
> >>> Larry:
> >>> 
> >>> We've installed about 20 IG/LV series
> inverters. Some failures required only replacement of GF
> cards, most required replacement inverters. We've had
> several DOA when new, one was replaced by Fronius with a
> rebuild even when we warned in writing that we would not
> accept a rebuild (it had multiple KOs pulled in the chassis
> -- just not acceptable). As of right now, we have 7 in
> non-operational status awaiting replacement. No kidding.
> >>> 
> >>> There maybe be one or two that have not
> failed, but this is offset by those that have failed
> multiple times. The biggest failure rate is of the 6 LV4550s
> on an exterior north wall 2 blocks from the beach
> (http://millersolar.com/Portfolio/Commercial/Voler/voler.html).
> These have been replaced three or four times each and are
> coming out as soon as we finalize the paperwork, with 3 10K
> Plus series inverters going in. This will require extensive
> rework, but we are being paid for our time. The Fronius
> staff has been very nice, but pretty slow to respond.
> >>> 
> >>> I hate to report bad reviews to this forum,
> but it is what it is.
> >>> 
> >>> William Miller
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> At 02:51 PM 4/19/2009, you wrote:
> >>> 
> >>> William,
> >>> 
> >>> 100% of what quantity? Are there any special
> conditions that may have contributed? Were they minor
> problems?
> >>> 
> >>> Larry
> >>> 
> >>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >>> 
> >>>
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