[RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem

boB Gudgel boB at midnitesolar.com
Mon Apr 20 09:42:54 PDT 2009


boB Gudgel wrote:
> Mark Dickson wrote:
>> Hi Bob, From what I understand the "State 108" code means that the 
>> grid frequency is out of whack.
> Frequency and voltage windows are both related to anti-islanding 
> detection, so I don't doubt you would receive this message.
> I would be surprised if the error was not a result of a high impedance 
> (weak) grid at the inverter.  Lowering the voltage at
> the inverter, like, tapping down a transformer if possible (industrial 
> installation?) may be one answer.  I remember Daryl
> Thayer had to do that on one of his grid tie (not AC coupled) installs 
> to fix this sort of problem.
> boB
>

Ooops !   My mind went islanding there on that xformer tapping idea !
(Battery based, not grid tied)

However, if you are using an OB FX you can lower the AC output 
voltage.   That is another
option that may help.   OR, try a larger inverter with a lower output 
impedance.   It will be harder
for the Fronius to "think" the grid frequency is being pushed out of the 
limits.
Also, have you taken your multi-meter and looked to see what the AC 
voltage is around the time
the relays trip and errors occur ?  Curious to hear what it is.   You 
might try to look at the frequency
also, but it may not be out of Fronius' window limit long enough to get 
an accurate reading.

boB



>
>
>
>>   It was explained to me by Fronius techs that: the IG sends out 
>> pulses that if the grid is in good shape it is absorbed into the 
>> grid.  If the frequency is off then it bounces back to the IG 
>> triggering the State 108.
>> Your response does give me something to think about though. . .
>> Mark Dickson
>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>> 877-627-4778 toll-free
>> 406-777-4321 (0830 fax)
>> www.oasismontana.com
>>  
>> www.grid-tie.com
>>  
>> www.PVsolarpumps.com -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of boB 
>> Gudgel
>> Sent: Sunday, April 19, 2009 11:42 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem
>>
>> Mark Dickson wrote:
>>
>>  >> the array output climbs above 3000 or so watts, we continually 
>> get a “State 108” code and shut down cycles each time a relay trips 
>> on a diversion load...
>>
>> Sounds to me like your diversion load may be too small and/or the 
>> grid is weak at the Fronius end. When the diversion loads suddenly go 
>> away due to
>> their "relays tripping", the Fronius', having lots of power to sell, 
>> raising the AC grid voltage right out of the UL1741 / IEEE Voltage 
>> window limit (132V ?).
>> It hen has to shut down and disconnect in order to stop the apparent 
>> islanding condition. That's probably what state 108 is trying to tell 
>> you ?
>>
>> Looks like your Fronius inverter is most likely working just fine ?
>> boB
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  
>>> Larry,
>>>
>>> I am having a somewhat similar problem with a recently installed 
>>> IG5100. I have it installed in conjunction with an Outback battery 
>>> based system for AC coupling. We have it set up to divert its loads 
>>> to an electric ice melter and then to a large electric heater as the 
>>> battery voltages climb. A third relay cuts the array power between 
>>> the Fronius and the AC panel if the battery voltage continues to 
>>> climb to unsafe levels.
>>>
>>> When we have heavy sunshine and low house loads (second home) and 
>>> the array output climbs above 3000 or so watts, we continually get a 
>>> “State 108” code and shut down cycles each time a relay trips on a 
>>> diversion load. I have worked with both Outback and Fronius (who 
>>> have been great!) but at this point we are all baffled. I think my 
>>> next step, especially after reading the above post is to replace the 
>>> Fronius. Then as a last resort swap the IG5100 out to a couple of 
>>> SMA 3000US’s (a 6000US does not configure well with the 28 evergreens).
>>>
>>> Any input from you guys would be greatly appreciated!
>>>
>>> Mark Dickson
>>>
>>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org 
>>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
>>> *William Miller
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, April 19, 2009 7:59 PM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Fronius IG4000 problem
>>>
>>> Larry:
>>>
>>> We've installed about 20 IG/LV series inverters. Some failures 
>>> required only replacement of GF cards, most required replacement 
>>> inverters. We've had several DOA when new, one was replaced by 
>>> Fronius with a rebuild even when we warned in writing that we would 
>>> not accept a rebuild (it had multiple KOs pulled in the chassis -- 
>>> just not acceptable). As of right now, we have 7 in non-operational 
>>> status awaiting replacement. No kidding.
>>>
>>> There maybe be one or two that have not failed, but this is offset 
>>> by those that have failed multiple times. The biggest failure rate 
>>> is of the 6 LV4550s on an exterior north wall 2 blocks from the 
>>> beach 
>>> (http://millersolar.com/Portfolio/Commercial/Voler/voler.html). 
>>> These have been replaced three or four times each and are coming out 
>>> as soon as we finalize the paperwork, with 3 10K Plus series 
>>> inverters going in. This will require extensive rework, but we are 
>>> being paid for our time. The Fronius staff has been very nice, but 
>>> pretty slow to respond.
>>>
>>> I hate to report bad reviews to this forum, but it is what it is.
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At 02:51 PM 4/19/2009, you wrote:
>>>
>>> William,
>>>
>>> 100% of what quantity? Are there any special conditions that may 
>>> have contributed? Were they minor problems?
>>>
>>> Larry
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 
>>>
>>>
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>>
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