[RE-wrenches] Efficient water softener?

[Matt Tritt]

Kinetico is a good make of softeners for sure, but they are not without 
their problems. Water passes through a plastic gear train that dictates 
when regeneration occurs, and these gears are known to break from time 
to time. The original price is also through the roof (because of all the 
resin beads and the two tanks). But I would like to remind the 
interested parties that the actual electrical draw from a regular old AC 
powered softener is almost nothing to begin with. The only things that 
draw current are the timer (almost no load at all), and the solonoids 
(almost no draw), which only work during the regen cycle. Any but the 
smallest off-grid system can easily handle the energy required to run a 
standard, run of the mill softener, so I wouldn't be concerned.

Matt T

Bill Loesch wrote:

> David, Kurt, et al,
>  
> If I am understanding your question correctly, the Kinetico brand of 
> _non-electric_water softener would fit the bill precisely. It is my 
> understanding that the entire (extensive) line of Kinetico products 
> are dual _resin_ tank machines. The huge benefit to this dual resin 
> tank design is that the control head (as well as the resin) sees only 
> softened water unlike a single resin tank machine in which the control 
> head never sees anything but the untreated water you are trying to 
> correct. So while you pay more for the dual resin tank design it lasts 
> way longer and the life cycle cost is less. Plus, in the words of the 
> currently fashionable ads, the benefit from the reduced maintenance 
> (by you or others) "priceless".
>  
> My compliments to solve a water quality problem. Tremendous benefits 
> for every other water using appliance, valve, and faucet in the 
> dwelling. You might consider putting the softener on the hot water 
> only (as scale is formed in direct proportion to the amount the water 
> is heated- compare the hot and cold pipes when you are doing repair 
> work to convince yourself of this) and naturally lower the temperature 
> of the hot water source to _only_ using temperature to save even more. 
> Most people, myself included, can then turn on only the hot water 
> faucet to bathe. What is the purpose of heating the water (with a 
> fossil fuel) at the tank/tankless/boiler only to add cold water 
> to cool it down at the other end? 
>  
> Bill Loesch
> Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* Kurt Albershardt <mailto:info at es-ee.com>
>     *To:* RE-wrenches <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
>     *Sent:* Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:57 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Efficient water softener?
>
>     On 2/26/09 1:30 PM, David Palumbo wrote:
>
>>     I have an off-grid customer with a need for for a non-electric,
>>     or very efficient electric, water softener.
>
>
>     Lots of options there if you don't need time based regeneration. 
>     Regen typically follows one of the following scenarios, listed in
>     ascending order of cost:
>
>     1. Time only (regen at a perset time and day regardless of water use.)
>     2. Flowmeter only (regen after a praticular number of gallons
>     regardless of time or date.)
>     3. Time and flowmeter (regen only after waking or business hours
>     but before media runs out of capacity, sometimes based on floating
>     averages.)
>
>     #1 will be familiar to many residential softener owners of yore,
>     who may recall the famous 'guest button' that told the softener
>     there was more flow that day.  It requires power all the time.
>     #2 can be completely mechanical (flowmeter spins the counter gears
>     and opens/closes valves using water power.)
>     #3 requires power all the time (but frequently has added benefits
>     like a totalyzing meter.)
>
>     The ultimate solution for off grid is a twin tank softener (a
>     smaller version of the type frequently seen in commercial or
>     industrial applications.  These have a number of benefits:
>
>     Backflushing is done with softened water, improving the quality of
>     the flush and prolonging the life of the media.
>     Regen can happen at any time of the day or night and the system
>     (if appropriately sized) will deliver treated water 24x7.
>     Regen never happens unless the media is depleted, minimizing salt
>     usage (and minimizing landscape poisioning if the softener drains
>     to anything other than a muicipal sewer.)
>
>     If the budget is there, have them buy a twin tank system based on
>     a Fleck 9000 valve (with the mechanical timer - I bought the
>     electronic one and while I like the features, I am starting to
>     regret the phantom load it married me to.)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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