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Kinetico is a good make of softeners for sure, but they are not without
their problems. Water passes through a plastic gear train that dictates
when regeneration occurs, and these gears are known to break from time
to time. The original price is also through the roof (because of all
the resin beads and the two tanks). But I would like to remind the
interested parties that the actual electrical draw from a regular old
AC powered softener is almost nothing to begin with. The only things
that draw current are the timer (almost no load at all), and the
solonoids (almost no draw), which only work during the regen cycle. Any
but the smallest off-grid system can easily handle the energy required
to run a standard, run of the mill softener, so I wouldn't be concerned.<br>
<br>
Matt T<br>
<br>
Bill Loesch wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid003001c998b4$476d2400$6401a8c0@solarf1dxi592n"
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2">David, Kurt, et al,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">If I am understanding your question
correctly, the Kinetico brand of _non-electric_water softener would fit
the bill precisely. It is my understanding that the entire (extensive)
line of Kinetico products are dual _resin_ tank machines. The huge
benefit to this dual resin tank design is that the control head (as
well as the resin) sees only softened water unlike a single resin tank
machine in which the control head never sees anything but the
untreated water you are trying to correct. So while you pay more for
the dual resin tank design it lasts way longer and the life cycle cost
is less. Plus, in the words of the currently fashionable ads, the
benefit from the reduced maintenance (by you or others) "priceless".</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">My compliments to solve a water
quality problem. Tremendous benefits for every other water using
appliance, valve, and faucet in the dwelling. You might consider
putting the softener on the hot water only (as scale is formed in
direct proportion to the amount the water is heated- compare the hot
and cold pipes when you are doing repair work to convince yourself of
this) and naturally lower the temperature of the hot water source to
_only_ using temperature to save even more. Most people, myself
included, can then turn on only the hot water faucet to bathe. What is
the purpose of heating the water (with a fossil fuel) at the
tank/tankless/boiler only to add cold water to cool it down at the
other end? </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Bill Loesch<br>
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar<br>
</font></div>
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<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: initial; -moz-background-origin: initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="info@es-ee.com" href="mailto:info@es-ee.com">Kurt
Albershardt</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org"
href="mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org">RE-wrenches</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Thursday, February 26, 2009 9:57 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [RE-wrenches] Efficient water softener?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
On 2/26/09 1:30 PM, David Palumbo wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:DJEBJJALDIMBNFIAMJMCKEOIDNAA.dave@independentpowerllc.com"
type="cite">
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<div><font face="Arial" size="2"><span class="921033919-26022009">I
have an off-grid customer with a need for for a non-electric, or very
efficient electric, water softener.</span></font></div>
</blockquote>
<br>
Lots of options there if you don't need time based regeneration. Regen
typically follows one of the following scenarios, listed in ascending
order of cost:<br>
<br>
1. Time only (regen at a perset time and day regardless of water use.)<br>
2. Flowmeter only (regen after a praticular number of gallons
regardless of time or date.)<br>
3. Time and flowmeter (regen only after waking or business hours but
before media runs out of capacity, sometimes based on floating
averages.)<br>
<br>
#1 will be familiar to many residential softener owners of yore, who
may recall the famous 'guest button' that told the softener there was
more flow that day. It requires power all the time.<br>
#2 can be completely mechanical (flowmeter spins the counter gears and
opens/closes valves using water power.)<br>
#3 requires power all the time (but frequently has added benefits like
a totalyzing meter.)<br>
<br>
The ultimate solution for off grid is a twin tank softener (a smaller
version of the type frequently seen in commercial or industrial
applications. These have a number of benefits:<br>
<br>
Backflushing is done with softened water, improving the quality of the
flush and prolonging the life of the media.<br>
Regen can happen at any time of the day or night and the system (if
appropriately sized) will deliver treated water 24x7.<br>
Regen never happens unless the media is depleted, minimizing salt usage
(and minimizing landscape poisioning if the softener drains to anything
other than a muicipal sewer.)<br>
<br>
If the budget is there, have them buy a twin tank system based on a
Fleck 9000 valve (with the mechanical timer - I bought the electronic
one and while I like the features, I am starting to regret the phantom
load it married me to.)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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