[RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of MW+ installs, solar and wind

Sun Feb 15 16:01:38 PST 2009

Hi Peter.  I have not been involved with large wind farms, but have a few
"wind parks", 2-3 to 6-8 wind turbines, in the feasibility stages.  My
question stems from the perspective of comparing both wind turbines and PV
for land size per MW and installed cost.  If I assume "approx 6 acres for a
1 MW fixed ground mount crystalline array, including fence and inside access
roads. Price excluding fence, road work, cable trenching, and grid
connection approx $7.50/W DC" is correct, then the comparison would be to a
single 1 MW wind turbine that takes up an area comprising a tower base,
parking space and an access road, presuming the run to the grid connection
is underground.  So maybe it is an acre of "disturbed" land vs. 6 acres of
disturbed land for the same rated capacity.  According to Windustry, "the
costs for a commercial scale wind turbine in 2007 ranged from $1.2 million
to $2.6 million, per MW of nameplate capacity".  So it appears that wind/MW
is seriously cheaper and also uses far less property.   Obviously, the wind
resource needs to be good as well.  I'm not putting a bid or spec together,
just trying to put the comparison in perspective and have it be fairly
accurate.  I'm open to any differing thoughts and/or corrections to my line
of thinking. 

Wind farm acreage can vary due to ground obstructions, the resource and land
lease arrangements.  I visited a wind farm in NM that follows a river bed
for something like 22 miles and has many lease holders for the properties
involved.  Ironically, that wind farm, as well as many others around the US
is owned and operated by Florida Power and Light, a company with not a
single wind farm in FL, due to the lack (as I understand it) of an adequate
wind resource.

Thanks for all the wrenches responses.

Roger Dixon
Certified Wind Site Assessor
Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC
908.337.2057 cell
908.730.6474 fax
roger.dixon at att.net

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of ASAP POWER!
2
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 2:51 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of MW+ installs, solar and wind

Yes, that's right.  I think it still is...
Pardon if my question to you came off as something more than general.  Not
to meant to challenge.
Let me put it another way.  I've heard a couple of PPA providers tell me to
plan on having $1M dollars in the project budget per MW of PV you want to
connect to the grid.  Would you agree?

Still curious about WA state feed-in tariff, just wondering if any wrenches
in Washington know about it.

Roger, have you been involved with wind power/wind farms in this range?   If
so, what are the costs/kw to get on grid you see there?   And also curious:
what are the acres involved per MW in average wind farms?

Peter D.
"Not everything that can be counted, counts."
Al Einstein

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joel.davidson at sbcglobal.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:57 AM
To: info at asappower.com; RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation

I thought this was just a general question, not a cost/price discussion.

Joel Davidson
"It's not so important that you understand me; just don't misunderstand me."

Bucky Fuller

----- Original Message -----
From: "ASAP POWER! 2" <info at asappower.com>
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:00 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation

> Really?  I would think the word would be INcluding.  Joel, can you say 
> "$1M
> per MW" for grid connection work alone like most everyone in the
> utility-scale biz??  This adds at least $1/Wp taking up time/man-hour 
> costs,
> feasibility/system impact studies with the IOU, WECC, WREGIS, CAISO, and 
> all
> costs related to getting to the point of the on-the-grid queue-in and PV
> kwh's being counted and paid for.  If you've got re-conductoring or new
> lines going on for anything over half a mile, might think about $2 to 
> $3/Wp
> additional to base of $4 to $6.5/watt all EPC/turnkey, plus the $1/watt 
> grid
> connection costs.  MW+ system size switchgear/transformers, etal ain't 
> cheap
> either.
>
> By the way, anyone know more about WA state's FIT?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Joel
> Davidson
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 6:46 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation
>
> Approx 6 acres for a 1 MW fixed ground mount crystalline array including
> fence and inside access roads. Price excluding fence, road work, cable
> trenching, and grid connection approx $7.50/W DC.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ASAP POWER! 2" <info at asappower.com>
> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Sent: Friday, February 13, 2009 12:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation
>
>
>> Both area and cost per kw are going to depend on the PV technology
>> platform
>> and the type of mounting.  Are you talking crystalline modules or
>> thin-film
>> modules?   Fixed tilt or tracking?   If tracking, unless known metrics
>> already, you just gotta work it out with whatever you're working with.
>>
>> I recently fit 3.9MW of a large thin-film module on fixed tilt on 29.9
>> acres, scheduled to come in below $4.00/W.
>> For crystalline, as a very general rule of thumb, I would say .6 the area
>> and 1.5 the cost?
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of roger
>> dixon
>> Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:07 AM
>> To: tump at hughes.net; 'RE-wrenches'
>> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation
>>
>> Did you ever get a response to this post?  If so, would you mind sharing
>> it/them with me?  I am also trying to get a handle on how much
>> ground/acreage a 1MW or 2MW solar installation would use.  Any idea?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Roger Dixon
>> Certified Wind Site Assessor
>> Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC
>> 908.337.2057 cell
>> 908.730.6474 fax
>> roger.dixon at att.net
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
>> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
>> tump at hughes.net
>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:39 PM
>> To: RE-wrenches
>> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cost per kW of a 2 mega watt installation
>>
>> Can anyone out there give me this info or have a site that I can get 
>> these
>> figures. How about the area required for a project of this size?  Thanks
>> in
>> advance. Tump Sent via BlackBerry by AT&T
>
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