[RE-wrenches] Sunny Island with Outback Transformer

Jeff Blick jeff.blick at sunlightsolar.com
Thu Feb 12 08:08:25 PST 2009


Hi Max,
I am curious as to whether the positive ground of the xantrex is compatible
with the negative ground of the sunny island.  We have had to change designs
in the past due to this mismatch.  I would like to know how you got around
this.  Thank you.
 
Jeff Blick
Lead PV installer
Sunlight Solar Energy Inc.
direct: 541-306-4196
fax: 541-322-1911
jeff.blick at sunlightsolar.com
www.sunlightsolar.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
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Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 6:25 AM
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Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 2, Issue 172

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: FW:  Panel Fire (Allan Sindelar)
   2. Re: SEIA stuff (Drake Chamberlin)
   3. Sunny Island with Outback Transformer (Max Issacs)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 06:13:42 -0700
From: "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  Panel Fire
To: "'David Brearley'" <david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
Cc: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Message-ID: <349D57CD55FC40F7AD67838BD66DA4D4 at AllanLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

David,
OK, you're right. Each row is two panels, not four, and one two-panel
subarray burned. My mistake, sorry.
 
I have a strong defensive radar about substandard work in our industry, and
this is an extreme example of what can happen. This can hurt us all in terms
of public perceptions about PV. I have been a bulldog about shoddy or
unlicensed work in our area, and have helped to "discourage" a couple of
unlicensed companies from becoming established here. It's my shadow side of
trying to build a strong industry, and of trying to protect our own
company's reputation for quality.
 
Allan
 
-----Original Message-----
From: David Brearley [mailto:david.brearley at solarprofessional.com] 


Allan, there are 4 modules pictured in the "before" photo, not 8. The after
photo show the "good" modules, the ones that did not burn. This suggests
there are 4 module each on two separate roof faces. Please have another look
at the before picture and count the frames. In the before picture each 250 W
mystery module is supported at 4 corners only. They are some sort of large
format modules. Nothing I can find online matches these characteristics,
especially the superstrate material.

Please re-read the homeowner's account in these various postings as well.
Sundiego indicates that the module superstrate is not glass, but some other
material. Apparently it is a material that melts when exposed to flame. It
sure isn't glass, that's pretty clear by the photos and the written account.

This does not look like an elaborate hoax to me. It does look, as BB points
out, like a potential crime scene, a fraud at the very least. Something was
misrepresented to this customer. It's pretty apparent that these modules are
not listed and identified for the application. The installation isn't
vaguely appropriate. It's just dumb luck-literally-that the house didn't
burn down.

Clearly the narrator is unreliable, but I don't think it is malicious, just
ignorance. The dude's a "solar newbie" and his house caught on fire. That's
what it looks like to me.

David


On 2/11/09, "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:



One detail I haven't heard mentioned yet and am  curious about - the photo
of the fire damage appears to show the corner of  another west(?)-facing
array. I find it curious that the system owner  described a 2 kW system made
up of eight 250W(!) modules, which are  clearly visible in the topmost
system photo.  There's just a whole lot that doesn't jive in  this whole
story. Scary to me . 

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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:25:06 -0500
From: Drake Chamberlin <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SEIA stuff
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Message-ID: <20090212142133.BA295FE9E at che.dreamhost.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 07:30 PM 2/11/2009, you wrote:
>Anyone have a copy of the newest SEIA tax guide that they could send me,
por
>favor?
>


Could I get one too?


Drake Chamberlin
Athens Electric
OH License 44810
CO License 3773
740-448-7328
740-856-9648  




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 09:22:25 -0500
From: "Max Issacs" <max at southern-energy.com>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Sunny Island with Outback Transformer
To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Message-ID: <002501c98d1d$53e90d40$0612a8c0 at SEM015>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Howdy Everybody.  I am working on a grid tied battery back up system with a
Sunny Island 4248U, a Sunpower 5000x and an Outback PSX 240 autotransformer.
I am using the transformer to step down the 240v power from the Sunpower to
be compatable with the Sunny Island which only accepts 120v.  The electrical
inspector is telling me that I cannot use the Outback as it does not derive
a neutral from the source feed referencing NEC 215.11.  Has any one else run
into this problem or know of another transformer that would work?

Thanks,  

Max Isaacs, Solar Technician

Southern Energy Management
(O) 919.836.0330
(C) 919.538.9712
(F) 919.836.0305
101 Kitty Hawk Drive
Morrisville, NC 27560
www.southern-energy.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2009 7:58 AM
To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 2, Issue 171

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	re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org

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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the Subject:
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quoted message.
 

Today's Topics:

   1. Re: FW:  Panel Fire (David Brearley)
   2. Re: FW:  Panel Fire (Wind-sun.com)
   3. Re: another firefighter mis-information link (was:	Panel
      Fire) (Allan Sindelar)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:57:00 -0600
From: David Brearley <david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  Panel Fire
To: <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>,	RE-wrenches
	<re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Message-ID: <C5B9245C.26D1%david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Allan, there are 4 modules pictured in the ?before? photo, not 8. The after
photo show the ?good? modules, the ones that did not burn. This suggests
there are 4 module each on two separate roof faces. Please have another look
at the before picture and count the frames. In the before picture each 250 W
mystery module is supported at 4 corners only. They are some sort of large
format modules. Nothing I can find online matches these characteristics,
especially the superstrate material.

Please re-read the homeowner?s account in these various postings as well.
Sundiego indicates that the module superstrate is not glass, but some other
material. Apparently it is a material that melts when exposed to flame. It
sure isn?t glass, that?s pretty clear by the photos and the written account.

This does not look like an elaborate hoax to me. It does look, as BB points
out, like a potential crime scene, a fraud at the very least. Something was
misrepresented to this customer. It?s pretty apparent that these modules are
not listed and identified for the application. The installation isn?t
vaguely appropriate. It?s just dumb luck?literally?that the house didn?t
burn down.

Clearly the narrator is unreliable, but I don?t think it is malicious, just
ignorance. The dude?s a ?solar newbie? and his house caught on fire. That?s
what it looks like to me.

David


On 2/11/09 6:57 PM, "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:

> I guess I'm not the only one who's suspicious of this whole story. This
came
> to me off list. Some of the post here doesn't jive - it's pretty clear
there's
> no glass, and the blurry corner doesn't look it to me.
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
>   
>   I  may be very wrong here and I don?t mean to impugn anyone?s integrity
but
> don?t forget that in this era of digital animation movies you can?t always
> believe what you see in photo either. (I'm sure no one here has ever
> Photoshopped a photo to make it more presentable  looking.)  I couldn't
help
> but notice that the bottom right corner of  the photo was surprisingly
blurry
> and indistinct.  It is  difficult to distinguish one thing from the next,
when
> just a few feet  away but out of the range of detail in the photo, things
> seemed to be  much clearer.  I?ve never seen a photo look like that  in
> reality.  It?s as if the roof and array have  mysteriously melted
together.
> Also, I have never seen tempered glass  melt in a low temperature fire.
If
> it were a high temperature fire the roof would not have  survived.  I
think
> that a great deal of caution is warranted  especially considering the lack
of
> detail that the poster is giving about  the panels, location,
> installer/supplier, existence of another array  etc.
> --- On Wed, 2/11/09, Allan  Sindelar <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
wrote:
> One detail I haven't heard mentioned yet and am  curious about - the photo
of
> the fire damage appears to show the corner of  another west(?)-facing
array. I
> find it curious that the system owner  described a 2 kW system made up of
> eight 250W(!) modules, which are  clearly visible in the topmost system
photo.
> There's just a whole lot that doesn't jive in  this whole story. Scary to
me .
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 00:07:38 -0700
From: "Wind-sun.com" <windsun at wind-sun.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  Panel Fire
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Message-ID: <437DFDFE66A34C7BB4139E4479BDFBFD at Warren>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Re: [RE-wrenches] FW:  Panel FireA new term for bargain basement modules?

............................................................................
......................
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: David Brearley 
  To: allan at positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 11:57 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] FW: Panel Fire


  each 250 W < mystery module >
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Message: 3
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 05:58:03 -0700
From: "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] another firefighter mis-information link
	(was:	Panel Fire)
To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Message-ID: <E7F0BD42D304487080FEBB1243EEB32A at AllanLaptop>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Kurt,
Yeah, I did, and I tried to post a response. I had to register, and when I
got to "Request a Reference", an apparent glitch kept me from proceeding. I
finally gave up.
 
Two of five comments debunk the article. One is by Dan Fink of
Otherpower.com, and includes a link to his PowerPoint on the subject.
Allan at Positive Energy.
 
-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kurt
Albershardt

Did anyone else catch the link on that page to
http://www.firelink.com/training/articles/5689-the-dangers-of-solar-panels-f
or-firefighters ?


 
On 2/11/09 6:48 PM, Michael Welch wrote: 

This seems corroborating. It has GOT to be the same situation:
http://www.examiner.com/x-432-Wedding-and-Marriage-Examiner~y2009m2d10-Our-w
edding-anniversary-like-a-house-on-fire-literally
<http://www.examiner.com/x-432-Wedding-and-Marriage-Examiner%7Ey2009m2d10-Ou
r-wedding-anniversary-like-a-house-on-fire-literally> 

Search the page for "solar" to get to the crux of it


Did anyone else catch the link on that page to
http://www.firelink.com/training/articles/5689-the-dangers-of-solar-panels-f
or-firefighters ?










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