[RE-wrenches] Nabcep - grid tie---Off grid

Dana dana at solarwork.com
Tue Nov 24 08:40:37 PST 2009


Just got to weigh in on this one.

It cracks me up to see the grid tie generation's attempts at off grid
design. It is such an experiential design mode. It can be conceptually
taught in a class. But it has to be lived to really be made whole. The finer
OG designers I know have almost all lived off grid. It is like transmission
repair mechanics! I used to do tune-ups and do a timing chain on occasion
long ago, but fix a transmission, either automatic or manual, forget it, not
me as it was to specialized.

Perhaps you have a good idea here, Jay. I hate to see an additional layer
added here but you bring a good point to light. I am currently the #4
designer to work on both a SHW and Grid tie with battery backups that do not
work and the battery bank is cooked and was not large enough to do much more
than a couple of hours of back up at most though the client was promised
that it would support the house for several days. It is sad to see people
taken by NAPCEP Certified and non certified installer/designers who wade in,
make more of a mess, charge a bucket load and wander off citing the owner is
asking too much.

Again the public is not still not protected from the ignorant and
unscrupulous solar designer that is not clear about their abilities and
honest enough to speak the truth.

Do I advocate another test for off grid? 
I think the current test is ambiguous and purposefully misleading and does
not allow for the normal references that we all utilize on a daily basis and
was mostly designed by cubicle dwellers who have never had a wrench in their
hand. I understand that AC Master electricians have quite a bit of reference
materials to test and retest.

Do I advocate an off grid PV test? 
It might help the public. Are we willing to endure another test and the
subsequent re-tests when some of us have to drive 13 hours+ round trip to
take the test?

Perhaps it could be a 10-15 question additional rider on the NABCEP grid tie
test for those that opt for it..................

Add my .02 to the pot.

Happy Turkey Daze all!



Dana Orzel

Great Solar Works, Inc
www.solarwork.com
E - dana at solarwork.com
V - 970.626.5253
F - 970.626.4140
C - 970.209.4076

I will be the shift in how the world uses power! - Dana Orzel


-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 9:04 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Equipment shortages, long lead times?

At the risk of stirring the hornets nest, I disagree with NABCEP's stance of
this issue.

I think for their own survival and best interest they need to specialize.
Battery based and batteryless are really different critters.
And that the present and future of the industry is hugely weighted to the
batteryless systems it makes perfect sense to have two different sections.

Since NABCEP already has 2 tests, they can add a third.  
This is a new revenue stream for NABCEP.

And thanks Daryl for the idea of the transmission repair person.  I got to
thinking and yes in the old days, folks repaired both, and many mechanics
will still try their hands at repairing standards, but the automatics have
gotten very very complex needing very special tools and training such that
that someone who fixes automatics might be able to fix a standard, but it
doesn't go the other way.

My 2 cents,

jay

peltz power


On Nov 23, 2009, at 11:57 AM, penobscotsolar at midmaine.com wrote:

> Here, here Bob-O.
>   We, too, have seen no decrease in our off grid market as well. It is
> rapidly becoming a specialized field here in Maine.(not talking about
> you, Tump) Even our largest competitor is now sending off grid business
> to us as they have had too many problems training competent installers
> who understand the minutea(?) of battery physiology, proper gen
> charging, etc. and just want to do the wam bam straight grid tie
> systems. I appreciate NABCEP's (and your) insistence on continuing to
> require off grid knowledge in order to be certified. Anything less
> would be like certifying a mechanic who only knows about standard
> transmissions in transmission repair. Your logic in continuing to
> insist on battery based knowledge is important to our field. Thanks.
> 
> Daryl
> 

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