[RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria

[Joel Davidson]

Hi Jay,

You are right. A lot of photos and almost all live shots are from news 
helicopters usually showing commercial flat roof fires. Most of the smaller 
fires and residential fires are knocked down too fast for reporters to get 
to the scene or the news services think are not eye-catching. Most home 
fires with steep pitched roof are fought from the ground. The general plan 
of attack is to evacuate the smoke, enter the building to save people, stop 
the fire at its source, and stop the fire from spreading. Fire people 
describe the strategy differently, but it boils down to first save the 
people, then save the property, then save the neighborhood.

>From a PV contractor's standpoint, we have to design for building inspectors 
and firefighters but their needs (or the AHJ's interpretation) are not 
always in sync. The AHJ trumps the firefighter. I think that the PV 
industry's best strategy is what is being done now. Get the firefighters' 
buy-in and let them tell the AHJ what they need rather than letting the AHJ 
define what he thinks the firefighters want.

Believe it or not, the situation is getting better at least in California 
thanks to Sue Kately, CalSEIA executive director, and others. A year ago, 
almost all small residential PV systems could not meet the AHJ's 
interpretation of fire safety needs. Now about 7 out of 10 jobs get 
permitted.

Joel Davidson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "jay peltz" <jay at asis.com>
To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2009 7:56 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] fire safety vs. fire hysteria


> As I follow this thread and just got off a 12 and 12 roof, I wondered  how 
> the fire departments deal with roofs you cannot get to easily?
> I've seen lots of photos of firefighers on roofs, but pretty much all 
> flat roofs or low angle ones.
>
> For example
>
> a metal roof in the wet,
> steep roofs
> steep roofs in the snow?
> ETC.
>
> Just wondering,
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
>
> On Jan 7, 2009, at 1:05 PM, Antony Tersol wrote:
>
>> The fire hysteria is relatively easy to deal with - the facts take
>> care of untruths.  As William Miller noted, of greater threat here in
>> California are the rules being presented by various fire departments
>> and by the California State Fire Marshall's office.
>>
>> Among the problems that we have seen (references to the
>> solarphotovoltaicguideline document):
>>
>> 1. The guidelines are being used in place of regulations. Page 6 is
>> not read - including:
>> "This guideline is just that, it is a suggested means of writing a
>> local ordinance and does not have the force of law."
>> "...the city, county, or city and county must make express findings
>> for each amendment, addition or deletion of the state building codes."
>> "Provisions contained in this guideline do not apply unless
>> specifically adopted by local ordinance by a local enforcing
>> agency..."
>>
>> 2. Page 10, section 2.2.1 is applied to all buildings, including
>> single family residential.
>> "2.2.1 Access
>> There should be a minimum six foot (6') wide clear perimeter around
>> the edges of the roof.
>> Exception: If either axis of the building is 250 feet or less, there
>> should be a minimum four feet (4') wide clear perimeter around the
>> edges of the roof."
>>
>> 3. As William noted, the restriction of 3' from the ridge for
>> residential (page 10, 2.1.2) will eliminate or severely constrain a
>> very high percentage of projects.  We also estimated on the order of
>> 75-90% of our residential projects.  We need to be up to the ridge on
>> the south facing roof for several reasons: a. limited roof space, so
>> that we are extending eave to roof, b. the higher on the roof, the
>> further from the edge and thus from shade impacts from surrounding
>> buildings and trees.
>>
>> I would suggest looking at your own projects, and also a random
>> selection of pictures on the web of residential projects, and you will
>> see that many, if not most, are installed as high on the ridge as
>> possible.
>>
>> Fire officials have not objected previously when there was access on
>> the other side of the ridge, but will most likely object if these
>> guidelines are adopted.
>>
>> see:
>>
>> http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/pdf/reports/solarphotovoltaicguideline.pdf
>>
>> http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/training/pdf/Photovoltaics/pvinstallationguideliines.pdf
>> Powerpoint presentation.  Of interest: almost every actual PV
>> installation (including the Marin Fire Station) appears to have PV
>> modules extending to the ridge.  The one exception has a chimney at
>> the ridge, but modules on the rest of that installation extend to the
>> ridge.
>>
>> http://osfm.fire.ca.gov/training/pdf/photovoltaics/solarphotovoltaicguidelinecover.pdf
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