[RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?

Wed Dec 24 08:58:45 PST 2008

I tend to think there is a bit more money north of the SF bridge..

Roger Dixon

Certified Wind Site Assessor

Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC

908.337.2057 cell

908.730.6474 fax

roger.dixon at att.net

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Tritt
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:51 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?

Yep, I agree. FYI, Proven has finally given up trying to sell us on the idea
of roof-mounted turbines - at least when it comes to me. ;-) The people in
SF are full of crap, of course, but I was being nice in my comments to the
general group. Nicey nicey! By the way, I had a metting with these folks,
during which I spent 99% of the time attempting to move them out of town,
and into the proper environment for wind turbines. They argued back that the
city is where all the money is. Nuff said?

Have a great Christmas, Roger

Matt

roger dixon wrote: 

Hey Matt.  There is much interest in the "urban turbine" these days, in part
because it has a catchy ring to it.  Proven has installed many urban
turbines in the UK, all on low towers or roof mounted and all have reported
poor production by comparison to the traditional tower top installation in
the suburb or country where the proper hub height can be obtained.
AeroVironment, Inc. has an interesting take on urban turbines with their
"parapet wind" installations.  The theory is that the wind accelerates as it
flows over the parapet of a building, thereby offering a better end result
for power production.  This sounds reasonable, but as in any wind turbine
installation, what direction the wind comes from and what obstructions are
in that direction are still major factors to capturing the resource.  As
many of us already know, wind modeling is part historical data and part an
educated best guesstimate.  Urban wind modeling has a different, and in my
opinion higher, level of difficulty.  The historical data has yet to be
compiled, which leaves us with just a best guess, unless an anemometer is
installed to capture that particular site's data.  It is an interesting
theory, but it still needs to be proven.  

My take on the San Francisco urban SkyStream is that they either got lucky
with the location or there is a bit of PR and embellishment at play.  Do
they have any wind instrumentation in place to record the wind data?  Is
there a customer side meter installed to verify kWh production and correlate
that to their recorded wind data?  

Roger Dixon

Certified Wind Site Assessor

Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC

908.337.2057 cell

908.730.6474 fax

roger.dixon at att.net

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Matt Tritt
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 9:18 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?

Roger, etc.,

All reports that have come my way basically concur; with one interesting
exception - that being from a SkyStream owner (and "urban wind dealer").
They are claiming about "500 kWh/per month" from their machine, which is
located smack-dab in the urban heart of San Francisco. This is on a 45'
tower, by the way, right next to a house. Since this reported production
rivals the best turbines in the same rotor size class in a really great wind
site, the report is either extremely misread, or this part of the city has
one hell of a wind regime! It is also interesting to note that they won't
sell any more SkyStreams after having "a negative experience" with SWWP. 

Matt T

roger dixon wrote: 

I support and second the thoughts and comments Roy has voiced, as the real
world experience does not yet marry up to the projections and subsequent
client/owner expectations.  Without a customer production meter, owners are
basically happy with their units (they rotate so they make power J).   With
production meters you will find a different reaction.  Reality sets in with
the numbers on those meters.  I do not install ANY wind turbine without a
customer side, production meter and I monitor that with annual inspections
and maintenance.  I am hopeful that refinement of the Skystream turbine,
electronics and software will prove to be fruitful and live up to those
projections and expectations. 

Roger Dixon

Certified Wind Site Assessor

Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC

908.337.2057 cell

908.730.6474 fax

roger.dixon at att.net

From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Roy Butler
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 5:25 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?

Phil and all,

The industry insiders have a great saying that sums this all up....

Skystream owners without production meters love their turbines.
Those with meters hate them.....

Let's hope SWWP does what it must to turn this around and do what's right
for 
the industry. Hey...I can dream can't I??

Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer 
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747

www.four-winds-energy.com
www.nationalsolarsupply.com

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

Phil Schneider wrote: 

Our experience with the Skystream here in Wyoming has been good so far.  We
have installed 6, the oldest one being in operation for about 14 months.
One is part of a battery based grid-tie system, and operated well when
tested.  One of the turbines is in world-class wind in Southeast Wyoming.  I
just checked with the owner and it produced about 480 kWh in the last month
on a short tower (with a hundred miles of sagebrush to the windward side) at
almost 6000 ft elevation.  Unfortunately this turbine doesn't have an
anemometer/data logger, so we don't know if it is performing as expected.
My guess is that it spends a lot of time self-regulating.

One of the turbines was in the recent batch of recalls and was dealt with by
a SWWP-hired contractor.  This involved a potential leak in a seal of the
electronics compartment in the nacelle (although for some reason they are
replacing the whole turbine).  While reaching somebody at SWWP tech support
has been nearly impossible, this turbine swap was handled fairly swiftly.

>From the others' experience, sounds like we should keep our fingers
crossed.

P.

Phil Schneider, system engineer
Creative Energies
www.CreativeEnergies.biz
307.332.3410 Lander, WY
208.354.3001 Victor, ID

  _____  

From: Kurt Albershardt  <mailto:info at es-ee.com> <info at es-ee.com>
Reply-To: RE-wrenches  <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
<re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 08:26:38 -0800
To: RE-wrenches  <mailto:re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
<re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Skystream 3.7 experiences?

--On Monday, December 22, 2008 6:23 PM -0500 Roy Butler
<mailto:roy at four-winds-energy.com> <roy at four-winds-energy.com> wrote: > > In
a nutshell.....this unit is not ready for prime time yet. Lots of bugs and
glitches. > Not to mention much lower than expected energy production. --On
Monday, December 22, 2008 5:13 PM -0700 Louis Woofenden
<mailto:louis at woofenden.net> <louis at woofenden.net> wrote: > > We've
installed a couple of Skystream units here in southern Arizona. We know the
tilt-up tower works quite well--we've had to bring each unit down 2-3 times
for various problems with electronics. Added to this was SWWP's extremely
poor customer service. They took several days to even call us back, didn't
send promised parts, etc. Of course, these two installation sites are one
and two hours from our shop. We had one customer who was just about ready to
throw the unit in the back of his truck, and drive it the five hours up to
Flagstaff. > > It looks slick, the installation was no problem, but if it
doesn't work reliably, none of that really matters, in my opinion. I was
hoping SWWP would get this one right, but I don't think it's there yet.
Given the long and well documented SWWP history, I was afraid of this. Has
anyone successfully coupled a Bergey Xl.1 to a grid-tie?  Anything else to
recommend in the 1-5 kW range? thanks... > Might have something to do with
those little fence posts they call towers ;-) > > And that Smart foundation
only works on towers 60' or less. > Too short for most sites and not a good
height for energy production anyway. > > Believe me.....most of us would
love to see plug and play/ modular tower > and turbine systems but there's
no such beast yet! > > Best advice......take a wait and see approach. > >
Roy Butler > NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR > NYSERDA eligible PV &
wind installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC > 8902 Route 46 > Arkport,
NY 14807 > 607-324-9747 > > www.four-winds-energy.com >
www.nationalsolarsupply.com > > Although no trees were killed in the sending
of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. >
> > > > Kurt Albershardt wrote: >> Anyone have realworld experience with the
SWWP Skystream 3.7 they can >> share? >> >> The AnemErgonics foundation kit
looks fairly well thought out. >> >> >> >> > >
_______________________________________________ > List sponsored by Home
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Eastern Sierra Energy Engineering Reno, NV 775-853-1800
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