[RE-wrenches] Generartor Auto-Start Issues

[Eric Andrews]

I am curious, as a somewhat green off-grid installer, are those of you
having such bad luck w/ the AGS/MATE using a GSCM, such as the Atkinson
products?  Or just relying on the OB relay and two wire start gennies?  I
seem to be having better luck than others thus far (knock on wood) w/ our
off-grid installs that use the AGS function.  Just wondering if one method
is better or not.
 
Cheers,
 
Eric R. Andrews
NABCEP Certified PV Installer
Eco Solar, Inc.
Klamath Falls, OR 97601
 
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Christopher
Freitas
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2008 11:48 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generartor Auto-Start Issues
 
Season's Greetings - 
 
We have been having severe weather in the NW since last week and we elected
to close OutBack today due to the snowy roads.  I am actually traveling but
will check for messages for the remainder of the holiday break.  Fell free
to email me directly if you have any tech support questions that require
immediate response.   
 
I am glad to see that this discussion of automatic generator start issues
include the experience about having the customer being completely reliant on
the system operating completely unattended.  I think doing this is asking
for trouble.  The auto generator start systems built into all of the
inverter systems should be viewed as a convenience device - not as a
comprehensive "bullet-proof system" which will operate 100% of the time.  A
complete generator management system can be installed which will provide
that level of reliable operation - but it would require much more complexity
and cost - I think most people would not be willing to pay for the cost and
maintenance required to ensure 100% reliability.  
 
I have been involved with trouble-shooting probably well over 100 generator
auto-start systems over the years - and I have always been amazed at the
level of complexity that can occur.   Often the inverter system is viewed as
the "problem" when the real problem turns out to be something else.   Seldom
has the generator selected been designed for such a critical application or
has it been properly maintained.  Often the relays used in the system are
not the right type - people often use cadmium-oxide contacts when dry
circuit rated gold contact relays are required.  Many times the generator
can't handle the low temperatures and start reliably.  Or the quality of the
fuel is poor from long term storage, etc.. 
 
If the customer expects 100% reliability - a redundant stand alone
auto-start system should be installed as a backup - and the system really
should include a second generator - and many additional protective circuits
such as excessive run timers and of course "murphy switches" (low oil / over
temp shutdown system).  The system should be designed to alert the system
operator of an error and fail in a operational mode - i.e. running the
generator until the system can be operated manually or repaired.  This will
result in excessive fuel usage unfortunately.  
 
OutBack has built up a  well trained customer service group which assists
homeowners and installers with generator start system every day.  The
majority of the time the reason for the problem is figured out - but there
are times where problems can be very difficult to determine - especially if
they are intermittent or not repeatable.  Since we are not able to be
on-site we are only able to certain things to assist with trouble shooting
the system.   We often provide replacement parts "just in case" they are the
problem. and more often then not it doesn't solve the problem because the
real issue is somewhere else.  
 
As with any complex system - there are always "surprises" that occur - we
have updated the software in the MATE a number of times to address unusual
circumstances and unexpected combinations of events.  We upgrade the
software at no charge and always advise using the latest available MATE
software when trouble-shooting and auto generator start problems.  
 
Happy Solstice and a New Solar Year! 
 
Christopher
 
 
Christopher Freitas
Director of Research and Development 
OutBack Power Systems, Inc.
 <mailto:cfreitas at outbackpower.com> cfreitas at outbackpower.com
Tel 360 435 6030
Cell 360 202 4239
19009 62nd Ave NE 
Arlington WA 98223 USA
 <http://www.outbackpower.com/> www.outbackpower.com
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