[RE-wrenches] Lumeta Power-ply modules

ASAP POWER! 2 info at asappower.com
Mon Sep 22 10:07:34 PDT 2008 

 
Kirk,
We won't find a lot of experience yet but here's what Lumeta said recently
(Sept. 18th).

Our Lumeta PowerPly roof-integrated PV module is for low-slope applications
for both new commercial construction and existing buildings.  Our "Peel and
Stick" and "Click and Go" technologies eliminate the need for mounting
structures and reduce installation cost and time.

Lumeta PowerPly is compatible with single-ply membranes (PVC, TPO, EPDM) as
well as most built-up roof systems.  PowerPly incorporates 160
monocrystalline silicon solar cells, yielding a peak power of 380 watts.
Lumeta PowerPly systems weigh just 1.8 lbs/sq. ft., compared to 2.6 lbs/sq.
ft. for rack-mounted systems.  This lightweight, thin design (0.4 in)
integrates seamlessly into the commercial roof system.

The Lumeta Solar S and Solar Flat Tiles integrate with concrete and clay
profiled and flat tile roofs, resulting in aesthetically pleasing solar
solutions for new home construction.  Lumeta Solar Tiles are available in a
multitude of popular color choices.

Lumeta Solar S and Flat Tiles are lightweight and are installed as the roof
is installed, minimizing roof penetrations and the need for mounting
systems.  

We will be evaluating potential installer/re-seller partners in selected
geographic areas over the next three months. We will be using the following
criteria for our evaluation:

Relevant solar, roofing or electrical distribution/installation experience 
Complimentary product lines 
Established customer base in targeted market segments 
Financial strength 

Thanks,
Peter D.

-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk
Herander, VSE
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 12:05 PM
To: kirk at vtsolar.com; 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lumeta Power-ply modules

Hello,

Anybody out there have experience with these panels? They are self-sticking
4x8 380 watt cyrstalline modules.
http://www.dricompanies.com/PowerPly380.aspx The cut sheet does not list
them as UL approved. Are they availible yet?

Kirk Herander
Vermont Solar Engineering
802.863.1202
fax 802.863-7908
NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
Xantrex Certified Dealer Charter Member
NYSERDA-eligible installer
VT Solar Incentive Program Partner


-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirk
Herander, VSE
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 3:00 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches'
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Getting "GFDI Open" Message When It's Not

Yes. It happened to me on a recent SB 4000US installation. SMA knows of the
problem but doesn't know the cause. It's shown up in about 20 of 4000
(that's quanty of 4000) inverters sold. SMA did not tell if its unique to
the 4000US or other models as well.

But you can get the inverter to boot up properly by changing the jumper to
pos gnd, and move the gfi fuse to the positive gnd fuseholder. Then power up
the inverter and let it run for 1/2 hour. Then shut it off and change the
jumper and fuse back to a neg gnd. Then power up and it will boot properly.
This is the recommended work around by SMA and it worked for me. BTW, I
tried the pos gnd thing for only 15 minutes the first time and it did not
work, so do 30 minutes as recommended.

Kirk Herander
Vermont Solar Engineering
802.863.1202
fax 802.863-7908
NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
Xantrex Certified Dealer Charter Member
NYSERDA-eligible installer
VT Solar Incentive Program Partner


-----Original Message-----
From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jeff
Clearwater
Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 2:42 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Getting "GFDI Open" Message When It's Not

Good Day All,

I'm getting a "GFDI Fuse Open" message on a SB3000 and the fuse is good.

What I've checked:

1) I've checked POS to GND and NEG to GND both floating and when connected
to the integral DC Disco both for continuity and voltage . 
I show expected Voc on both strings and no continuity to GND nor voltage to
GND when the fuse is pulled.  There appears to be no ground faults or
miswiring.

2)  I've visually inspected all array wires - no pinching can be seen.  I've
checked for Voltage and Continuity to GND from both the array side and the
inverter side to isolate the wires in the conduit
- no problems there either.

3)  I've replaced the fuse even though it shows good with a good fuse with
no change.

4)  I've cycled the SB several times - no change.

5)  I've run through John B's method below twice - no change.

6)  I've confirmed that the GFDI fuse is in the top position of the two
possible GFDI position - the one for negative ground.

About the only thing I forgot to do was check if the Jumper for Negative or
Positive GND was in the correct position - it dawned on me after coming home
that if somehow that got set wrong at the factory that it would perhaps show
a fault but not blow a fuse? 
Could this be it?  (I hope!)

Anyone experience this condition before?

Next step is to just swap out the inverter but as it's Sunday SMA tech
support is probably not open so I hesitate to do that without their go
ahead.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

Jeff C.




At 12:18 PM -0800 11/21/07, John Berdner wrote:
Subject: RE: SMA Ground Fault troubleshooting advice. [RE-wrenches]

>
>Dave/Wrenches:
>
>Locating ground faults in the array is fairly straight forward albeit a 
>little dangerous.
>A DVM and some spare fuses (just in case) is all you really need.
>Be very careful when you are doing all of this because you will be 
>working with live wires hanging in space and PV negative is no longer 
>necessarily at ground potential.  If the equipment grounding on the 
>array is not up to snuff it is also possible to see hazardous voltages 
>on the module frames or structure so measure everything and be really 
>careful.  Treat everything as hot and potentially lethal until your 
>meter says otherwise. Remember each time you disconnect something the 
>whole situation can change so measure again to be sure.  Also, 
>depending where the ground fault is and the order in which you pull the 
>wires out of the inverter (or disconnect) it is possible to see double 
>the array Voc.  This can be a very bad thing since the spacing on all 
>components was designed for 600 Vdc max and you could be at double 
>that.  A 960 Vdc arc at  5 to 8 Amps is pretty ugly.
>
>Start by opening the DC disconnect and removing the GFDI fuse in the 
>inverter.
>Measure the array open circuit voltage form the PV plus in the dc 
>disconnect to the PV negative in the inverter.
>Lets say it is 480 Vdc.
>Now measure PV positive to ground and then the PV negative to ground.
>An array without a ground fault should give you roughly equal values of 
>around 240 Vdc but the measurement should decay down towards zero.  
>What you are seeing is a discharge of the capacitive coupling between 
>the array and ground.
>
>In an array with a ground fault you will measure a fixed voltage to 
>ground on both the PV positive and PV negative.
>The sum of the PV positive to ground and PV negative to ground 
>measurements should equal the open circuit voltage.
>The difference in this case is that the voltage will be fixed and will 
>not decay towards zero.
>The voltages you measure actually tell you where to start looking for 
>the ground fault.
>
>For example: with 12 modules in series and an open circuit voltage of 
>480, each module is equal to 40 Vdc.
>If you measure PV positive to ground and get 0 volts then you should 
>see a PV negative to ground voltage of - 480 Vdc.  This tell you the 
>ground fault is in the PV positive output conductor.
>Alternatively, if you were to see PV positive to ground at 400 Vdc and 
>PV negative to ground at -80 Vdc this tells you the ground fault is 
>between the 2nd and 3rd modules "up" from the PV negative.
>
>To figure out which string the ground fault is in, isolate each string 
>(remove the wires from the disconnect/inverter) and repeat the PV 
>positive to ground and PV negative to ground measurements.  On one 
>string the measurement will float around and the other will give you a 
>fixed measurement to ground.  The fault is in the string that has the 
>fixed measurement to ground.  My suggestion is to pull both positive 
>and negative wires for string 1 and measure.  If you are lucky you 
>picked the right string the first time out and you don't need to pull 
>the second string at all.
>It is unlikely but also possible to see a ground fault in the "middle"
>of a module.  In this case you might see 380 Vdc from PV positive to 
>ground and -100 Vdc from negative to ground.  This would indicate a 
>fault in the middle of the third module "up" from the PV negative.
>Normally this means the module itself has a ground fault due to a nick 
>in the backskin, fault in the edge seal, etc. You can verify this by 
>isolating (unplugging) the suspect module then measuring PV positive to 
>ground and PV negative to ground for that isolated module.
>
>
>Lastly, In some very rare case the ground fault will actually be in the 
>string combiner, dc disconnect, or (heaven forbid) in the inverter 
>itself. You can verify this if the array voltage measurements show a 
>ground fault when connected to the combiner/disconnect/inverter and 
>then both strings float when measured in hanging in free space.  While 
>unlikely, if you find this situation reconnect the PV back up then 
>disconnect one thing at a time and measuring relative to PV positive 
>and PV negative to ground until you find where the fault is.
>
>Best Regards,
>
>John Berdner
>
>
>
>>>>  ipl at sover.net 11/21/2007 07:40:51 AM >>>
>
>Wrenches,
>
>I have a grid tied system with a SB3800U inverter being fed by 2 
>strings of
>(12) Evergreen 180's (4.32kW). UniRack rail mounted on garage roof.
>Good
>installation all wiring neat and well supported. Only DC bond to ground 
>is in the inverter etc. And no external monitoring equipment.
>
>The system has been operating very well (over 5,000 kWh over 2 months 
>in Northern Vermont), this is the first problem.
>
>We are in the middle of a snowy spell and the array is covered in snow, 
>but I should be able to check out the array within a few days. 
>According to the error message on the Sunny Boy the GFDI 1 amp fuse is 
>open. The array has made it through lots of rain, ice and snow over the 
>past year.
>
>My suspicion is in the MC connector(s) themselves. We had a bad batch 
>of MC cables purchased from a large distributor 12 to 18 months ago. 
>The MC connector would pull off the wire when tested. Of course not all 
>of them where tested before they got into the field, so one could be on 
>this roof.
>
>Obviously I will check connections in the combiner, the dc disconnect 
>etc, could be a moisture issue. Of course it could be a squirel I 
>guess.
>
>Any advice on troubleshooting this ground fault would be appreciated.
>Safety
>wise do we need to cover the array with a dark tarp?
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jeff Clearwater
Senior Design Engineer
NABCEP (tm) Certified Solar PV Installer http://www.nabcep.org/ Village
Power Design Turnkey Solar Design & Installation for the Commercial Sector
http://www.villagepower.com gosolar at villagepower.com

Voice: 413-259-3750
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