[RE-wrenches] line side taps
R. Walters
walters at taosnet.com
Wed Sep 3 00:55:55 PDT 2008
I've used some taps that could be put over the supply side line
hot, and clamped down with insulation piercing jaws.
THe clamping mechanism that you tightened was insulated from the wires.
The main could handle 4/0, while the secondary tap that you
connected to the solar was smaller.
Ilsco?, I don't recall, sorry. It could fit in a tight space, though.
Ray
On Sep 2, 2008, at 5:28 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:
> Jeff,
> John Wiles' Code Corner kinda got pushed aside by Home Power as the
> magazine
> got more mainstream. Simultaneously, IAEI gave him room to go as
> deep as he
> wanted in its bimonthly magazine. An illustrated article addressing
> supply-side connections can be found here:
> http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/08_d/wiles.html. The entire
> series
> of PV Code articles can be accessed here:
> http://www.iaei.org/subscriber/magazine/series.htm.
>
> Veg on, Jeff!
> Allan at Pos Energy
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Hi Everyone,
> We are installing two grid-tied commercial systems that we will
> need to do
> line side taps in order to connect to the grid. I am curious as to
> exactly
> how this is achieved? Hoping that those of you who have done line
> side taps
> on three-phase 480V or three phase 120/208 systems could shed some
> light on
> this for me. What parts do we use to achieve connection? Does
> anyone have
> any photos? Thanks all in advance for your advice........
>
>
>
> Jeff Blick
> PV installer
> Sunlight Solar Inc.
> 4 NW Franklin
> Bend, OR 97701
> direct: 541-306-4196
> fax: 541-322-1911
> jeff.blick at sunlightsolar.com
> www.sunlightsolar.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of
> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org
> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:11 PM
> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> Subject: RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 110
>
> Send RE-wrenches mailing list submissions to
> re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/listinfo.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> re-wrenches-request at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
> re-wrenches-owner at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of RE-wrenches digest..."
>
>
> When responding to posts within the Digest, be sure to restore the
> Subject:
> line to the original
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Utility disco DC? (Drake Chamberlin)
> 2. Re: Utility disco DC? (Erika M. Weliczko (REPOWER SOLUTIONS))
> 3. Re: Utility disco DC? (David Brearley)
> 4. Re: Followup to Surrette Battery Question (Allan Sindelar)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 12:56:16 -0700
> From: "Drake Chamberlin" <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Utility disco DC?
> To: <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Message-ID: <f442d88d51604272bb6c9de13c3704b9 at homepower.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hello Wrenches
>
> Can the lockable utility disconnect be DC? Has anyone tried
> this? On an
> add on system we found this had been done. It would be convenient
> to use
> this method.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Drake
>
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/
> attachme
> nts/20080902/b1c3d5ee/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 16:02:00 -0400
> From: "Erika M. Weliczko (REPOWER SOLUTIONS)"
> <erika at repowersolutions.com>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility disco DC?
> To: re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
> Message-ID: <20080902200351.87C44FFC9 at che.dreamhost.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
>
> Depends on utility probably but most around here specify AC
> disconnect.
> Probably since they only really speak one language.
>
> erika
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Tue, 02 Sep 2008 15:28:00 -0500
> From: David Brearley <david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Utility disco DC?
> To: <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>, RE-wrenches
> <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Message-ID: <C4E30C00.8F2%david.brearley at solarprofessional.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> One of my previous colleagues negotiated this on a high profile
> project in a
> new jurisdiction. The inspector didn?t have a problem with this.
>
> You should definitely talk to the AHJ. It?s not a difficult case to
> make: no
> PV input = no inverter output.
>
> Good luck,
>
> David
>
>
> On 9/2/08 2:56 PM, "Drake Chamberlin"
> <drake.chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Wrenches
>>
>> Can the lockable utility disconnect be DC? Has anyone tried
>> this? On an
> add
>> on system we found this had been done. It would be convenient to
>> use
> this
>> method.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Drake
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Options & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> David Brearley, Technical Editor
>> SolarPro magazine
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer ?
>> david.brearley at solarprofessional.com
>> Direct: 541.261.6545
>> Fax: 541.512.0343
>>
>> Visit our Web site at solarprofessional.com
>
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/
> attachme
> nts/20080902/c6d35d41/attachment-0001.htm>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 15:10:28 -0600
> From: "Allan Sindelar" <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Followup to Surrette Battery Question
> To: "'RE-wrenches'" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Cc: Charles_Haecker at nps.gov
> Message-ID: <112EA229E5F64AB6A12BA8320CFF785E at AllanLaptop>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Wrenches,
> I had promised a followup post on what I learned when I inspected this
> client's batteries. The short form of the original issue (original
> post
> query is at bottom): client had as recently as June been able to EQ
> from his
> array to 31.1V, now couldn't get past 30.7.
>
> There are a few good lessons here.
>
> Upon arrival: Batteries at 78 degrees F in basement. TM2020
> indicated pretty
> high late-morning SOC, but still charging in bulk. Cell voltages
> (two-cell
> pairs) ranged from 4.80 to 4.82, so pretty close range there. Specific
> gravities, though, ranged from 1.234 to 1.260, measured with a
> refractometer, with lowest cells getting rechecked and verified.
> The cells
> with both the lowest and highest SGs had the (slightly) highest cell
> voltages. About 52A input, less 10A load.
>
> Enabled EQ from MX60; temperature rose to 84F. Voltage measured at
> MX60:
> 30.7; voltage on MX60 display: 30.9 (I corrected this); voltage
> measured at
> battery terminals 30.45. The 1/4V drop is in the cables and remaining
> disconnects of the original and upgraded system DC disconnects and
> cables.
>
> My observations:
> 1. Small amount of liquid pooling in EPDM battery box liner. Asking
> lotsa
> questions determined that the owner was near-obsessive in
> maintaining his
> batteries, and added water every month. These large Surrette cells had
> replaced multiple strings of golf-carts, so old habits die hard,
> even with
> much larger electrolyte reserves. We determined that he was filling
> the
> cells too often and too full, which was causing some electrolyte
> spillage.
> As any spilled electrolyte was later replaced with water, some
> cells were
> thus being diluted. I suspect that this is the primary cause of
> lower EQ
> voltage.
>
> What made this worse was that we had replaced his charge controller
> with an
> MX60 and showed him how to engage EQ on it. All MX60s show a screen
> on EQ
> startup that says "Check Water Level". He had interpreted this to
> mean add
> water before equalizing. The bubbling and expansion of the EQ
> overcharge
> then caused more spilled electrolyte.
>
> 2. The fan on the MX60 had failed, as many of them have. While I
> don't know
> for sure, this may have either limited the unit's output due to
> temperature
> rise, or may have caused a misinterpretation of battery voltage or
> temperature correction; either could have caused these symptoms. The
> customer noted that he was familiar with the fan's sound, but
> hadn't noticed
> that it had recently stopped.
>
> So my actions:
> 1. Increased absorption time.
> 2. Disassembled and cleaned three terminals that were beginning to
> show
> corrosion (even with Quick-Cote on them).
> 3. Advised the customer to fill his batteries less often and less
> full.
> 4. Set MX60 Max EQ time temporarily to the max (7 hours, I think) and
> instructed him to do a corrective EQ from the array for at least a
> week.
> 5. Ordered a warranty replacement fan from Outback.
> 6. Recommended he not sell his generator but repair it, in order to
> get his
> EQ C/rate up to C/10 or so for hotter charging and winter EQ.
>
> I could also add electrolyte to the cells with the lowest SG after
> all this,
> but how much to add is a real crapshoot. Can anyone offer guidance
> on adding
> electrolyte to compensate for spillage?
>
> And one final question: In my original post I asked if deionized
> water was
> the same as distilled water. Nobody addressed this question. The
> customer
> said he investigated (Wikipedia, I think) and found no difference.
> Any other
> opinions, or (even better) definitive answers on this?
>
> Thank you,
> Allan at PosE
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2008 11:54 AM
>
> Wrenches,
> Thank you for the whole set of responses.
>
> I haven't been to the site yet, but plan to stop there this week.
> As the
> symptoms are not easily explained, I wanted to put the problem out
> for ideas
> here first, to reduce the chance of missing something. I will
> report back
> with what I learn.
>
> I will first check whether the 0.4 V discrepancy is related to battery
> temperature. It seems to me that the simplest way to do this is to
> check the
> MX60 settings during equalization. If the measured voltage is at
> the MX60's
> temperature-compensated EQ voltage, then a warm environment is the
> apparent
> cause of the reduced voltage.
>
> To answer a few of your many questions and fill in some details:
> 1. As I noted in my original post, the MX60 is temperature
> compensated. The
> VFX3524 is too, although the client tells me he hasn't run the
> generator
> since we added the 1.28 kW array.
> 2. To the best of my knowledge, the charge controll settings have not
> changed (that would be too easy!). The client hasn't changed
> settings, and
> we take care of all of their service needs.
> 3. The client equalizes regularly, as he notes in his description:
> last EQ
> (to 31.1 v) was in June.
> 4. The array is wired 48V, so hot modules and/or undersized wire
> isn't a
> voltage-limitation issue.
> 5. There are 6 4V batteries, 12 cells. I had conservatively figured
> the
> charge rate at about C/20, so the charge rate is adequate for off-
> grid. I
> most likely have the MX60 set to two hours absorption with a 2%
> done amps
> override to lessen gassing. After Surrette's tech bulletin about
> batteries
> in off-grid applications (recommending higher charge voltages and
> longer
> absorption times) came out, I started setting longer absorption
> times; I
> will go back and increase the absorption time on these to three
> hours, while
> keeping the 2% done amps in place. Would anyone argue with this
> setting
> change?
> 6. Tri-Metric voltage readings usually vary from MX60 readings,
> yes, but
> they don't tend to change over time. This situation is presented as
> a recent
> change from consistent past performance.
> 7. The client has not checked individual cell voltages or specific
> gravities. I will do that when I go there on a service call and
> will report
> back.
> 8. Re the quick C/5 charge idea: I would ask Jamie Surrette for his
> recommendation here. For sure, it hasn't happened; the client says the
> generator (an older Honda 5500, I think) needs service before it
> will start.
> I'll advise him not to sell it (as he plans) until we have resolved
> this and
> gotten Jamie's advice on battery care.
> 9. Miscalibration of the MX60 is unlikely but possible, and I will
> check
> this when on site.
>
> Thank you to the many of you who responded. Jamie Surrette responded
> off-list too, asking about battery temperature. I will report back
> after
> checking all of the above.
> Allan at Positive Energy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Wrenches,
> In late 2003 we installed a 24V set of Rolls-Surrette 4-KS-21PS 6V
> 1104 A/hr
> batteries in the off-grid system of a long-time client. The
> client's system
> had a democracy array of around 800 watts of tracked PV. In early
> 2005 we
> added 1,280 watts of additional PV, and the client hasn't run the
> generator
> since; the system rarely drops below 80% and fills to 100% most
> days in
> sunny New Mexico. Batteries are located in a basement, so
> temperatures stay
> relatively constant, although it will vary slightly seasonally. MX60
> controller is temperature compensated, with 29.6 VDC bulk and 31.4
> VDC EQ
> set points.
>
> The problem is that the client reports being unable to achieve
> previous EQ
> voltages, and this inability appears to be a new development. The
> system is
> otherwise performing well. As the client is sharp and pays close
> attention
> to the system's operation, I'm not ready to blame user ignorance
> (with one
> possible exception; read on). This may be an issue of seasonally warm
> temperatures, but I'm not sure this would explain the full 0.4 VDC
> reduction
> in voltage. I told him that I would post his problem to this list,
> and also
> request advice from Surrette Battery.
>
> Here is the client's description of the symptoms:
> I'm concerned that I am unable to equalize batteries at this time. Up
> until June of this year the Tri-Metric readings during equalizing
> indicated
> holding voltage at 31.1, with maximum amps gain of around 52.
> Three weeks
> ago, when set on equalize, the maximum voltage reading was 30.7, with
> maximum amps of 46; this was reached around noon, and by around
> 1:30 pm
> voltage/amps began its typical afternoon drop-off. I attempted
> equalizing
> on two other occasions since then--the last time this past
> Saturday, with
> clear skies up until mid-afternoon--but having the same results.
> So, the
> question is: are my batteries beginning their decline? We've had
> this set
> for 4 1/2 years, so it would seem a bit too early for this, given
> that these
> batteries are expected to last 7-10 years.
>
> Second issue, possibly related:
>
> On another matter, I have been using deionized water for the
> batteries for
> as long as we've been using photovoltaics (since 1991), as it is my
> understanding that deioinized water is virtually the same as distilled
> water--I just checked Wikipedia on this (using "deionized and
> distilled
> water" as the search phrase), and this appears to be the case.
>
> I don't know the answer to this question, as we have always
> recommended
> distilled water only in batteries, and have never faced this question.
>
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Allan Sindelar
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
>
> End of RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 1, Issue 110
> *******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> List sponsored by Home Power magazine
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Options & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
R. Walters
Solarray.com
NABCEP # 04170442
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org/attachments/20080903/bd912290/attachment-0004.html>
More information about the RE-wrenches
mailing list