[RE-wrenches] Three-Phase Generator feeding Series/Parallel Quad Stack

[Darryl Thayer]

HI all FYI
I am rushed with problems, but I hope this helps. 
My 12 inverter Outback system supports 3 phase 120/208 volt, But it can not do standalone operation on any more than 2 inverters legally. (therefor no Stand alone 3 phase with my system)  In my case Outback demonstrated 3 phase standalone, but there are 1741 issues I believe.  I also know they are close, but are putting some final touches on the last of some problem.

Sorry for so little information, 
Darryl
  
--- On Tue, 7/29/08, Phil Undercuffler <P.Undercuffler at conergy.us> wrote:

> From: Phil Undercuffler <P.Undercuffler at conergy.us>
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Three-Phase Generator feeding Series/Parallel Quad Stack
> To: "RE-wrenches" <re-wrenches at lists.re-wrenches.org>
> Date: Tuesday, July 29, 2008, 11:59 AM
> William, I believe you're right about the 180 degree /
> 120 degree differential. This is similar to the condition
> that fried the input relays on a handful of XW inverters
> which were connected to 120/208 three phase inputs.  In
> fact, Xantrex published a technical bulletin about the
> issue, available at
> http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/246/p/docs/pt/18/product.asp
> 
> To quote, "Input power ... cannot be simply derived
> from a phase or line voltage of a three phase 208:120Y or
> 240VΔ AC source. Instead of cancelling each other as they
> would with a split-phase source, each 120° out-of-phase
> leg effectively creates a short circuit (limited by the
> impedance of the transformer and the wiring), which leads
> to very high currents flowing on the neutral line causing
> imminent failure of the inverter's AC relay
> board."
> 
> The bad news is, Classic Stacking won't solve the
> problem; Classic is limited to two inverters max, and this
> installation is a quad.  I'm also not sure whether the
> excessive current flowing on neutral issue would be
> resolved with the elimination of the transformer, and
> whether the problem would then just move upstream to the
> next weakest link, the input relays of the FX.
> 
> Xantrex's solution in that technical bulletin (big
> transformer taking off 1 leg of 3 phase service, converting
> to 240v) obviously won't work to balance the generator,
> nor will parallel stacking the quad stack.  I would look
> into rewiring the genset for 120/240v output, or go hunting
> for three phase converters.
> 
>  
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Phil Undercuffler
> Director, Battery-based and Off-grid
> Conergy, Inc.
> Our World is Full of Energy
>  
> 1730 Camino Carlos Rey Suite 103
> Santa Fe NM 87507 USA
> Office | 505.216.3841
> Fax | 505.473.3830
> www.conergy.us
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org
> [mailto:re-wrenches-bounces at lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of William Miller
> Sent: Tuesday, July 29, 2008 9:30 AM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Three-Phase Generator feeding
> Series/Parallel Quad Stack
> 
> Nick:
> 
> Here's my best guess:  The X240 is configured to work
> with power legs with 
> 180 degree phase differential.  A 3 phase source has 120
> degree phase 
> differential.   This 120 degree phase differential shows as
> some degree of 
> direct short to the source.
> 
> Solution:  I would forego the X240 and change the stacking
> configuration to 
> Classic stacking.  Eliminate any shared neutrals to avoid
> neutral over-current.
> 
> William Miller
> 
> 
> At 08:09 AM 7/29/2008, you wrote:
> >Hello good folks in the RE world! An off grid customer
> of mine has a VFX 
> >Quad Stack wired exactrly like page 20 in the FX
> manual, including the 
> >X-240 balancing transformerconnected to the panel
> output legs. He has been 
> >feeding it with two legs of a three-phase diesel
> generator. IS THIS A 
> >COMPLETE NO-NO??? HE KNOWS THAT IT WILL RESULT IN AN
> UNBALANCED GEN 
> >OUTPUT, BUT SO FAR IT HAS BEEN WORKING OK, BUT WITH THE
> FOLLOWING GLITCH: 
> >WITH THE GENSET OFF------THE OUTBACK POWER PANELOUTPUT
> BUSSES ARE BOTH 
> >ENERGISED ONLY WHEN THE x-240 BREAKERS ARE ON. AS SOON
> AS THE GENERATOR 
> >STARTS (AGS SYSTEM) THIS 20 AMP DOUBLE BREAKERSEE PAGE
> 20, X-240) TRIPS 
> >IMMEDIATLEY, LEAVING HALF THE LOADS WITHOUT POWER (NO
> OUTPUT FROM THE LEG 
> >2 INVERTERS TO THE HOT 2 OUT BUSS) i'M BAFFELED,
> COULD SOMEBODY PLEASE 
> >EXPLAIN THIS SITUATION TO ME SO THAT i CAN HELP THEM
> OUT? Another 
> >electrician told them that a buck/boost transformer (on
> the gen 
> >output?)would be the fix. Thanks a bunch in advance for
> your help in this 
> >serious matter. Nick Houser Off Grid Services, Powell
> River, BC
> 
> 
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