Non-electric horse waterers [RE-wrenches]

[daryl_solar at yahoo.com]

Hi all
The cu ft of propane in a tank is much larger than compressed air.  The propane turns to liquid. I do not remember the volume change but water is about 1000 times.  So compressed air at 200 atmospheres (3000 psi) is about 200 expansion,  Propane goes from liquid to gas and I think is probibley more expansion maybe 5 times.
   
I have never used one, but there is some method using a small insulated bowl, and a 25 watt heater, the bowl is about 1 liter, the pipe fillsw the bowl on a float and the pipe comes from underground in an insulated pipe,
The heat of the ground heats the water and prevents the pipe form freezing.  Manufactures include Nelson, Richie and there are several working in minnesota.  

--- On Sat, 7/5/08, Roger Dixon <roger.dixon at att.net> wrote:

> From: Roger Dixon <roger.dixon at att.net>
> Subject: RE: Non-electric horse waterers [RE-wrenches]
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Date: Saturday, July 5, 2008, 5:22 PM
> Seems compressed air would have a better end result on the
> livestock, no?
> How long it would  last is questionable.
> 
> Roger Dixon
> Skylands Renewable Energy, LLC
> 908.337.2057
> roger.dixon at att.net
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Travis Creswell
> [mailto:tcreswell at ozarkenergyservices.com] 
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 1:04 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: RE: Non-electric horse waterers [RE-wrenches]
> 
> 
> A few years ago I seem to remember seeing a publication
> from the State of
> Missouri regarding low/no energy stock tank deicers.  Most
> of them were the
> usual suspects that have already been mentioned but there
> was one that stuck
> me as pretty far out.  They were suggesting a "propane
> bubbler".  It was
> years ago so please forgive me as the details are a little
> fuzzy.  They
> actually were recommending setting a barbecue size propane
> tank next to the
> stock tank then running a hose to the bottom and just
> barely opening the
> valve.  There was no mention of lighting the propane.  This
> was supposed to
> keep at least small patch of water deiced and the tank
> would last at least
> few weeks.  Does anybody else see all sorts of problems
> with that idea?  Has
> anybody heard about that one or is that a memory the aliens
> planted in my
> head the last time they abducted me?
> 
> On that vain what would replacing the propane tank with a
> tank of compressed
> air do?  Would that actually work or would the bubbling
> action just cool the
> tank off faster?
> 
> Travis Creswell
> Ozark Energy Services
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Drake Chamberlin
> [mailto:Drake.Chamberlin at redwoodalliance.org] 
> Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2008 12:58 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: Non-electric horse waterers [RE-wrenches]
> 
> 
> Hi Allan,
> 
> I remember this discussion from several years ago.  A
> method that was 
> discussed was to put the tank on top of a deep hole in the 
> ground.  My memory says the hole had to be 10 or 15 feet 
> deep.  Putting the tank as much in the ground as possible
> helped.  I 
> have no personal experience with this method, but it seems
> ingenious.
> 
> Drake
> 
> 
> At 05:52 PM 7/3/2008, you wrote:
> 
> 
> >Wrenches,
> >I believe that this has been covered before, but
> it's unusual enough I
> >didn't save the thread.
> >
> >I need solutions to keep horse waterers from icing
> over, for the barn in an
> >off-grid rural upscale home. The clients are talking
> about four waterers at
> >250 watts for 10 hours/day, and I don't think so,
> but I need to suggest a
> >non-electric alternative. Suggestions, please?
> >
> >Allan Sindelar
> >allan_(at)_positiveenergysolar.com
> <mailto:allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
> >NABCEP certified solar PV installer
> >Positive Energy, Inc.
> >3225A Richards Lane
> >Santa Fe NM 87507
> >505 424-1112
> 
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