no safe modules for ground-mounted arrays[RE-wrenches]
Matt Tritt
solarone at charter.net
Mon Jan 21 09:58:53 PST 2008
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Funny how things tend to escalate, isn't it? Since I tend to like
trackers over fixed mounts, and since trackers require a lot of drip
loop for flexibility, imagine the height the pole would need to be.
Carramba! I'd like to know what ever happened to warning signs on
potentially hazardous equipment, and parental oversight? Is common sense
so uncommon these days that we have to become the Safety Police?
Laws and insurance require that swimming pools be isolated by some means
(fencing, walls, etc.) to protect very young children and drunken
neighbors, not that pools be sealed with a child-proof cover (and pools
really /are /hazardous). I see no reason at all to_ not _do something
similar with PV, and let go of this move to try and make installations
intrinsically child-proof in and of themselves.
William's wire chaseway, and at least one racking manufacturer's similar
design look good for tidying up wiring messes for sure. But if a kid is
determined to get into something he shouldn't, he probably will find a
way, and I completely agree that the most plausible danger to anything
from using an array as a Jungle Jim is damage to the modules, not to
kids. Unless they're kid goats. ;-)
Ray Walters wrote:
>
>
> Absurdity Matt? I started at a reasonable idea of 6.5 ft, (pole
> height at 10 ft depending on the rack) now we've spooked ourselves up
> to 10 ft. But if anybody watches basketball, those guys can slam dunk
> on a 10 ft goal, so I think we need to go to 12 ft........
>
> Really, we've had solar installations here in Taos, practically since
> solar modules were available, and some of the worst wiring ever
> dreamed of. No deaths that I've ever heard of (we've been trying hard
> to keep it that way too).
>
> We're going to need to be reasonable here. Keeping kids from hanging
> off high voltage DC lines is a good idea, but when they're old
> enough to reach over 6.5 ft, they're smart enough to know better. I
> actually think there is more chance of module damage than kid damage
> from that anyway. ( BTW, I've got a couple of wipper snappers myself
> here to do all our destructive field testing)
>
> Nobody responded to my earlier idea of field installing J boxes over
> the MC cables, either. I guess it would void the module warranty,
> unless we had pre-approval, but it would work. Bill's metal covers
> looked better than anything else I've seen, but I agree there are
> still issues with that too.
>
> ray at solarray.com
>
> On Jan 19, 2008, at 5:51 PM, Matt Tritt wrote:
>
>>
>> Holy Smokes! According to this reg, and if applied to ground mounted
>> PV, the mounting pole would need to be about 15' above grade. Has
>> anyone else on this list noticed the level of absurdity possible
>> when following a "logical" train of thought? The biggest worries we
>> used to have concerned keeping horses and bulls away from
>> installations, and not falling from a roof, now it's technology
>> proliferated to the point where hazards to humans is the worry
>> because of the high voltages (or paranoia) involved.
>>
>> If accessible PV wiring is 48 volts or less, the problem goes away.
>> Or, to blaspheme, maybe the US could join the rest of the world and
>> use something other than the NEC to govern electrical practices.
>> Please, anyone; how many of you, or anyone you know even remotely,
>> has been injured or killed by any wire on the back of an array?
>>
>> If this all goes where it seems to be headed, the cost of PV could
>> reach a point that puts it out of the reach of even more people, and
>> the only companies able to accomplish installations will be the ones
>> that can afford the hugely expensive insurance policies that will
>> materialize to cover the "perceived" liabilities involved.
>>
>> Oh, for 1980!
>>
>> Matt T
>>
>> Drake Chamberlin wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> The bottom of the drip loop for a utility service drop needs to be
>>> 10' minimum from grade level.
>>>
>>> Drake
>>>
>>> At 04:46 PM 1/18/2008, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Regarding taller pole mounts:
>>>>
>>>> That is an interesting take on the definition of readily accessible.
>>>>
>>>> Center point of saftey switch handles can be no higher than 6
>>>> 1/2'. This
>>>> insures that they can be easily accessed for operation.
>>>>
>>>> I can reach up to almost 8' without getting a ladder.
>>>>
>>>> I would think that the "circuits" would have to more like over 8
>>>> 1/2' to be
>>>> deemed not "readily accessible".
>>>>
>>>> MPF
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Ray Walters [mailto:walters at taosnet.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 3:20 PM
>>>> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>>> Subject: Re: no safe modules for ground-mounted arrays[RE-wrenches]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Taller pole mounts that put the cabling above 2 m (6 1/2') would be
>>>> cheaper than fencing.
>>>> What if a manufacturer just approved a glue on J-box attachment to
>>>> the module? That's all the J-box was on the old J-box models.
>>>> We glue some J-boxes on, cut the cables shorter and wire nut away to
>>>> flex conduit. A single gang outdoor extension ring made of plastic
>>>> would work great.
>>>> I have some very old modules that have j-boxes that are just that.
>>>> Its actually sturdier than the old boxes were all crying about.
>>>> The proper adhesive would be the key ingredient. I believe silicon is
>>>> compatible with the Tedlar backing on the modules,
>>>> could a module manufacturer please comment?
>>>>
>>>> The retrofit I'm talking about would work on most modules now.
>>>>
>>>> ray at solarray.com
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>
> R. Walters
> Solarray.com
> NABCEP # 04170442
>
>
>
>
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