Flex vs. E-panel (was Flex ware inverter bypass slide) [RE-wrenches]

[Allan Sindelar]

My $.02 on these issues as raised by Christopher...

AC input power disconnect: Appears to be a red herring when used in an
offgrid application, which is all we have used the E-Panel for to date.
There is an AC input breaker. There is the AC input buss that will remain
live ahead of this breaker. But it's inside of a screw-cover enclosure,
which means it's only accessible to qualified persons. Either I turn off the
generator before opening the box, or I want the generator to be running for
testing.

Grounding with door open: Point well taken, and I'll change my approach.
They don't come with an inverter grounding conductor, and I can't count on
the hinge to establish a reliable ground with the door open, so I'll run a
bonding conductor with my DC cables from now on. Door screwed shut, it's not
an issue.

Cable movement: I had some real concern about this with the standard-width
E-Panels. I would shorten both cables by around 4-5" and put on new
terminals in order to make them open and close better. I never had trouble
with achieving at least 90 degrees of full-open; as it was required by Code,
I just made up the cables so that it worked. The stretch version has
resolved most of my concerns about inverter cable routing and movement.

NEC cable spacing requirements: Above my pay grade as well. I had assumed
that as a listed product, if installed according to the instructions (which
admittedly did not include shortening the cables...) I didn't have to worry
about cable spacing issues, as they had been addressed in the NRTL listing
process. And this forum has over the years pointed out flaws and
inconsistencies with just about every listed product we use.

Really, can't we all just get along? I appreciate John Raynes' comment that
he has sold more Outback systems because of Midnite. Us too, if a "system"
is an Outback inverter and an MX60.

In a dual- (or more) inverter stack, I'll likely use the PS or Flex, as it's
the best we have, warts and all. But we seldom need two inverters for an
offgrid home, even with deep wells, if we are involved in the design of the
water system. If a VFX3534 or 3648 isn't enough power, it might be cheaper
to change submersible pumps - don't laugh, it's happened. Big battery banks
need multiple inverters for battery charging mostly.

Seems like we have two manufacturers both making good, not perfect,
products, each of which may be preferable in particular applications.
There's room for both.

Allan at Positive Energy

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Bob Ellison" <reellison at gmail.com>


Maybe I am missing something here but here are some thoughts from
memory as I am not looking at a panel at the moment.

Input disconnect, all I have put together have come with one, beside
the transfer switch.

Grounding,  that would be the heavy copper wire that runs from the
inverter to the buss bar in the e panel, and from there to the ground.

Cable movement, if routed logically, and you close it while looking it
does not seem to be a problem. Don't twist the cable into a figure 8
and expect it to not get in the way.

Cable spacing is above my pay grade!

Got to leave, on the road again.
Bob

On Nov 30, 2007 11:42 AM, Howie Michaelson <howie at suncatchervt.com> wrote:
>
> boB,
>
> Chris F. has brought up some potentially valid points about the Midnite
> E-Panel design:
>
> 1. AC input Power disconnect
> 2. Grounding with door open
> 3. Cable movement
> 4. NEC cable spacing requirements
>
> Perhaps some others.  Does Midnite have any response to these salvos that
> you care to share with the list?  This feels like a valid conversation
> although not as a competition between manufacturers - these are issues
> that we need to consider in our installations.  We all need to understand
> the strengths and weaknesses of the equipment available out there.


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