Digest for RE-wrenches at topica.com, issue 2299 [RE-wrenches]
Matt Tritt
solarone at charter.net
Sat Jan 13 20:46:40 PST 2007
<x-flowed>
This is exactly my philosophy as well. 1800 RPM generators also tend to
use less fuel and most of them come with a more user friendly remote
start system, though the newer Kohlers have gone to some plug connection
system that's kind of a drag.
Matt T
Dana Orzel wrote:
>Generators
>
>Engine Speed - 1800 RPM VS 3600 RPM - 1800 RPM runs half as fast, much
>quieter and lasts longer.
>Cooling - Air cooled VS. Water cooled - Water cooled lasts longer and is
>Quieter.
>Two wire start VS Three wire start - Two wire is usually less hassle but not
>much of a difference.
>Water cooled and 1800 RPM costs more, sometimes double but is usually less
>hassle, Lots QUIETER, smoother running, and last more than twice as long and
>are real engines like a vehicle engine.
>I sell 99% - 1800 RPM and water cooled generators.
>
>
>Dana Orzel
>Great Solar Works, Inc.
>"Responsible Systems For Responsible People"
>dana at solarwork.com
>970.626.5253 - H/O
>970.209.4076 - C
>970.626.4140 - F
>-----Original Message-----
>From: RE-wrenches at topica.com [mailto:RE-wrenches at topica.com]
>Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 5:03 AM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: Digest for RE-wrenches at topica.com, issue 2299
>
>-- Topica Digest --
>
> backup generator specs...
> By ntrei at earthlink.net
>
> Re: backup generator specs...
> By toddcory at finestplanet.com
>
> RE: Inverter tripping AFCI
> By jim at altenertec.com
>
> Re: backup generator specs...
> By wrmiller at charter.net
>
> RE: Siemens Solar literature hunt
> By bob at energyoutfitters.com
>
> Re: backup generator specs...
> By john at raynes.com
>
> Any comments about CitizenRE
> By leebristol at gmail.com
>
> RE: Any comments about CitizenRE
> By wratterman at SunEnergyPower.com
>
> RE: Any comments about CitizenRE
> By markf at berkeleysolar.com
>
> Re: backup generator specs...
> By Roy at Four-winds-energy.com
>
> RE: Any comments about CitizenRE
> By cfreitas at outbackpower.com
>
> PG&E Disconnect
> By markf at berkeleysolar.com
>
> RE: Any comments about CitizenRE
> By graham at solarexpert.com
>
> Re: Any comments about CitizenRE
> By telliot at wagonmaker.com
>
> Re: backup generator specs...
> By ezra at lasqueti.net
>
>------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:21:32 +0000
>From: Jim Duncan <ntrei at earthlink.net>
>Subject: backup generator specs...
>
>
>
>A customer, building a small 1kW PV off-grid weekend home, insists that
>he can get a better deal on a backup generator than I and insists that I
>won't get to make that choice. So wanting to at least have some
>oversight in what he buys, told him I would forward some technical info
>to him since all generators are not created equally inverter friendly.
>Where can I find a list of specs, on the www, relating to the do's and
>dont's of generator selection? Combing thru the archives of the Wrenches
>site was really slow and cumbersome and only turned up specific genset
>related issues.
>Come to think of it, I could use an update on the subject with so many
>different brands currently on the market and the fact that I rarely do
>off-grid installs.
>
>Thanks as always
>Jim Duncan
>North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
>Fort Worth, Texas
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 09:23:40 -0800
>From: Todd Cory <toddcory at finestplanet.com>
>Subject: Re: backup generator specs... [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>I usually have the customer buy their generator, and prefer it to be
>that way.
>
>I DO offer suggestions. As I do smaller off grid systems (usually under
>5 kWh a day) my suggestions might be different than the McMansion crowd
>that I will not work for.These are to get a propane powered unit if
>possible, since it is likely they will have that on the site anyway, it
>burns cleaner, has no shelf life, and is less messy of a fuel to deal
>with than gasoline. I also suggest wattage... usually 5 to 7 kW. Most
>off grid folks have/need generators during the construction phase, and
>being modern inverters can power share (adding the inverter output to
>the generator output for powering large load surges), size is not as big
>of an issue as one would think it could be.
>
>I like the inverter/generators that are out now as they are more fuel
>efficient, dialing in engine power input to match kW power output
>requirements. I never set up auto start systems because I feel it is
>dangerous to have unattended generators start automatically and often my
>customers generators are located in enclosed closed pump houses so when
>they go out to start it, they open the necessary venting.
>
>Todd
>
>
>Jim Duncan wrote:
>
>
>
>>A customer, building a small 1kW PV off-grid weekend home, insists that
>>he can get a better deal on a backup generator than I and insists that I
>>won't get to make that choice. So wanting to at least have some
>>oversight in what he buys, told him I would forward some technical info
>>to him since all generators are not created equally inverter friendly.
>>Where can I find a list of specs, on the www, relating to the do's and
>>dont's of generator selection? Combing thru the archives of the Wrenches
>>site was really slow and cumbersome and only turned up specific genset
>>related issues.
>>Come to think of it, I could use an update on the subject with so many
>>different brands currently on the market and the fact that I rarely do
>>off-grid installs.
>>
>>Thanks as always
>>Jim Duncan
>>North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
>>Fort Worth, Texas
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:41:58 -0800
>From: "Jim Easton" <jim at altenertec.com>
>Subject: RE: Inverter tripping AFCI
>
>
>
>
>We have customer with a pair of SW5548s grid-tie feeding an AFCI protected
>load. The AFCI trips when energized -- thus disconnecting the load.
>
>I am concerned that there might really be an arc fault somewhere -- although
>I would expect it to burn itself out eventually, or, more probably, the SWs
>are generating electrical noise that is tripping the AFCI.
>
>Anyone have experience with inverters & AFCIs that might help in analyzing
>or correcting the situation?
>
>Thank you.
>
>Jim Easton PE
>Alternative Energy Technologies
>www.altenertec.com
>CSL: 852243
>9465-B Mission Park Place
>Santee, CA 92071
>Tel: 619-262-8800
>Fax: 619-562-8811
>Cell: 858-527-0240
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 11:17:08 -0800
>From: William Miller <wrmiller at charter.net>
>Subject: Re: backup generator specs... [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>
>Jim:
>
>For starters (pun intended), two wire start.
>
>William Miller
>
>
>At 08:21 AM 1/12/2007, you wrote:
>
>
>
>>A customer, building a small 1kW PV off-grid weekend home, insists that
>>he can get a better deal on a backup generator than I and insists that I
>>won't get to make that choice. So wanting to at least have some
>>oversight in what he buys, told him I would forward some technical info
>>to him since all generators are not created equally inverter friendly.
>>Where can I find a list of specs, on the www, relating to the do's and
>>dont's of generator selection? Combing thru the archives of the Wrenches
>>site was really slow and cumbersome and only turned up specific genset
>>related issues.
>>Come to think of it, I could use an update on the subject with so many
>>different brands currently on the market and the fact that I rarely do
>>off-grid installs.
>>
>>Thanks as always
>>Jim Duncan
>>North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
>>Fort Worth, Texas
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:53:37 -0800
>From: "Bob Maynard" <bob at energyoutfitters.com>
>Subject: RE: Siemens Solar literature hunt [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>Hi Marco,
>
>I just faxed you the M75 and SP75(originally called PC4JF) spec sheets.
>Siemens also made a PC4 that had a plastic edge guard instead of
>aluminum frame, no J-box, and 4 funky plastic mounting feet. If it has
>standard frame and J-box then it's a PC4JF. Let me know if I can help
>further!
>
>Best Regards,
>Bob Maynard
>groSolar/Energy Outfitters
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Marco Mangelsdorf [mailto:marco at pvthawaii.com]
>Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 5:14 PM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: Siemens Solar literature hunt [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>Anyone out there have the spec sheets on these dinosaurs: Siemens PC4
>and
>M75? I'd very much appreciate them if you have them.
>
>Thanks,
>marco
>
>Marco Mangelsdorf, Ph.D., President
>Electrical Contractor License C-26351
>69 Railroad Avenue, Suite A-7
>Hilo, Hawaii 96720 USA
>(808) 969-3281, fax 934-7462
>www.provisiontechnologies.com
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:11:00 -0700
>From: John Raynes <john at raynes.com>
>Subject: Re: backup generator specs... [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
>Ditto to what William said. If you're not installing an SW, that "great
>deal" won't look so great if he's also looking at a $200-300 generator
>start module (and your time to wire it all up and configure the 3-wire
>start settings).
>
>My impression is that most wrenches don't want to supply the
>generator. I'm definitely in that camp.
>
>My recommendations are to make sure that the generator is sized large
>enough to handle the full battery AC charge amps capacity of the inverter,
>plus typical daytime inverter loads, plus some margin. My experience has
>been that most non-inverter style generators will start to slow down enough
>to cause the inverter to drop the connection due to low frequency, a good
>bit before the generator has reached max power. And that's after de-rating
>the capacity by about 4% for every 1000' elevation above seal level
>(somebody correct me if my percentage estimate is wrong). That last one's
>probably not a big issue in No. Texas though.
>
>John Raynes
>RE Solar
>Torrey, UT
>
>
>
>At 11:17 AM 1/12/2007 -0800, you wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Jim:
>>
>>For starters (pun intended), two wire start.
>>
>>William Miller
>>
>>
>>At 08:21 AM 1/12/2007, you wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>A customer, building a small 1kW PV off-grid weekend home, insists that
>>>he can get a better deal on a backup generator than I and insists that I
>>>won't get to make that choice. So wanting to at least have some
>>>oversight in what he buys, told him I would forward some technical info
>>>to him since all generators are not created equally inverter friendly.
>>>Where can I find a list of specs, on the www, relating to the do's and
>>>dont's of generator selection? Combing thru the archives of the Wrenches
>>>site was really slow and cumbersome and only turned up specific genset
>>>related issues.
>>>Come to think of it, I could use an update on the subject with so many
>>>different brands currently on the market and the fact that I rarely do
>>>off-grid installs.
>>>
>>>Thanks as always
>>>Jim Duncan
>>>North Texas Renewable Energy Inc
>>>Fort Worth, Texas
>>>
>>>
>>- - - -
>>To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>
>>Archive of previous messages:
>>
>>
>http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>
>
>>List rules & how to change your email address:
>>www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>
>>Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>
>>Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>
>>Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:15:45 -0500
>From: "Lee Bristol" <leebristol at gmail.com>
>Subject: Any comments about CitizenRE
>
>
>
>
>Wrenches,
>
>One of my prospects met a salesperson for CitizenRE and was impressed at
>getting a solar PV system at no cost and paying only for the watts generated
>plus a $500 downpayment fee. I emailed CitizenRE for information and was
>contacted by a salesperson who wanted to sign me up as an installer paying a
>small fee of $250 plus 5% of dollars generated. Of course, the person I
>talked to knew nothing about solar, they had no installers in the Washington
>DC area where I am located, and I was told that by the fall they would be
>manufacturing panels, inverters, mounting hardware, etc.
>
>So, it seems like a scam to me but does anyone else have an opinion.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
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