Sheet Metal for DR's [RE-wrenches]

[Blair May]

Travis as we wrenches become even more professional,charging what we are worth,we 2 R asked to "fix customer installs".  I see the battery banks you described being installed still! I find that dealers are willing to sell these battery string sizes w/ so little PV that just the copper inter connects, we could retire. We 2 usually tell customers when "fixing" their system time & materials. Ill say this after loosing the sale to some internet site it is quite carthartic to see the pile of scrap before we even begin to reinstall.  Ahh nothing like seeing a customer buy things twice! 

As 4 your metal backerboard looh in the Hoffman enclosure catalog, should B ablt 2 find what U need. 

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-----Original Message-----

From: Travis Creswell <tcreswell at ozarkenergyservices.com>



Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 04:33:51 

To:RE-wrenches at topica.com

Subject: RE: Sheet Metal for DR's [RE-wrenches]







Right on Ray,



If I hadn't known the new owner for about 20 years and this job wasn't just

a few miles from the shop we wouldn’t even be thinking about taking it.

I've told at least a dozen folks in the last 6 months "that we don't work

that far from the shop anymore" (which is true since we have greatly reduced

our service area) and make sure they have the name of some other dealers in

the region.  Sometime they tell me "they are the ones that put it in to

begin with".  At that point it's also very important to remember that there

are two sides to every story which is another reason I've pretty much quit

taking this kind of work.



We learned long ago that cleaning up other peoples messes is so thankless

and just plain crappy work that it's nearly impossible to charge enough to

make it worth the time to do.  I'm all about helping folks out of jamb but

it's got to work for me to.  Most of the "clean up on Aisle 4" callers are

so shocked when I tell them the first step is site visit at full shop rate

including drive time both ways it's the last time I ever hear from them.

Which never ceases to astonish me...they've got at least $10k (sometimes a

lot more) tied up in the project and they won't pay someone to come out and

trouble shoot it.  My rates are pretty much the same as the local

electrician charges.



We'll all probably get a kick out of this; the prior owner of this system

had 24 L-16's hooked up to 750 watts of solar!  I explained to the new owner

that it was likely the batteries we're self discharging about half of the

array's daily production away.



I've got some used PS4 stuff and some used original Trace Power Stuff that I

can clean up and make work.  I had hoped for a more compact solution but it

looks like that's not going to happen.



Thanks,

Travis











-----Original Message-----

From: Ray Walters [mailto:walters at taosnet.com] 

Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 12:03 AM

To: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Subject: Re: Sheet Metal for DR's [RE-wrenches]







Hi Travis,



We used the PS2DC with DR inverters, and made our own cutout for the  

DR to butt up to it. Worked well for one inverter but not 2. Midnite  

has a small Cheaper DC enclosure that might work with the DR, you  

have to order it with the special option to get the breaker on the  

left instead of the right side of the box. We've got one in stock,  

but haven't tried it yet. It too wouldn't work for 2 inverters.

The FLEX 1000? might be big enough to cut out 2 holes for the DRs,  

and set it up like the old PSDC. That's probably the way we would  

handle it. Xantrex doesn't have a product still?



We used to get into a lot of cleanup jobs: its a messy business,  

because you want to bring everything up to code, but you don't want  

to break the customer's bank account.

We started offering trade ins on their used equipment (which we  

resell to DIY types, so we don't worry about install) and we try and  

install a whole new power board with new inverters for the customer.  

We often reuse some of their old stuff, but it gets tricky.

We also (Don't tell) occasionally relax on certain aspects of the  

code, since its an old system and not required to meet the latest  

code standards. THink of it like fixing wiring on an old house: you  

don't tear out all the wiring from the walls and replace the load  

center just because it wouldn't pass new construction standards. You  

DO fix any glaring safety problems, and you clearly document what you  

are /and are not responsible for.

  IF its a 12 volt system especially, we might allow the very short  

cable run from the inverter to the DC box to be exposed, if its not  

otherwise subject to damage. (ie., the equipment is in its own  

dedicated room) The cables to the batteries are lower and not  

actually protected by the main breaker, so we put those in conduit  

always.

Its a fine line between putting your name on work thats not up to new  

standards and over doing it.  We always make the system much safer  

than it was, but we relax on some stuff because we have to (try  

wiring up an old Trace U series inverter to 2008 NEC standard and  

you'll see what I mean)

Safe and Code are not always synonymous, but common sense should rule  

the day in the end.

This quandary has actually  led us to take fewer and fewer of these  

rewire jobs over the years, BTW.

Our rule of thumb:  "it costs twice as much to rewire a poor install  

as it would have cost to do it right the first time, and.... its only  

half as good."



I could send you some pics of some of the things we've done off line  

so you could see what we're talking about.



Ray





On Dec 14, 2007, at 6:49 PM, Travis Creswell wrote:



>

>

> Oh Most Knowledgeable Ones,

>

>

>

> We are resurrecting a used system that has two DR’s (3624’s).  It  

> never had

> any sheet metal, just two inverters stuck on the wall with an  

> “explosion” of

> wire coming out every which way.  The classic mess we’ve all seen.   

> If I

> ever find the guy….well…you know what I mean.



>

>

>

> The new owner wants it done right so I need to start over.  What  

> are my

> sheet metal options?  We’ve not had the opportunity to use and  

> Midnight

> stuff and this might be the time?  Does the new FlexWare even marry  

> up to

> DR’s?  A quick look at the FlexWare Guide does not reveal the  

> answer.  Does

> any body have some used or NOS (new old stock) PS2 stuff they’d  

> like to

> sell?

>

>

>

> Thanks in advance!

>

>

>

> Travis Creswell

>

> Ozark Energy Services

>

>



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