Grid sell with Outback, solar,and generator [RE-wrenches]

Fri Apr 27 03:50:38 PDT 2007

I share your frustration with OutBack. I was an early adopter of their
products. I have not used many Xantrex products in the past few years.
So, I need an update on what Xantrex now offers. What's up with the ol' SW
lineup?
Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
[mailto:toddcory at finestplanet.com]
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 9:58 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: Grid sell with Outback, solar,and generator [RE-wrenches]

The reason why this thread has "been beat to death" is because we never
get any accommodation from the manufacturer. This thread keeps coming up
because this is a gigantic design fault that needs to be addressed!

The issue with having your client manually tell the inverter via the
MATE that the AC input is "gen" not "grid" is the least of the problems.
The biggest issue is that the inverter cannot tolerate the poorer
quality of power from traditional engine generators. Some inverter
generators will work... but that means you will have to get your
customer buy a new generator and cross your fingers that it will work!

Christopher Freitas (the wrench list OB rep) has been curiously silent
about this issue the last time it came up, so the wrench support from
Outback is looking... sadly, more and more like how Xantrex behaved when
wrenches had issues with the SW inverter. I know, we all held high hopes
that Outback would behave differently! To say this is frustrating is a
huge understatement!!! To design an inverter selected for grid backup
that does not accept generator input? What genius made that decision
when the GVFX was on the drawing table????

This is a HUGE issue for me as we also have poor power quality here and
my clients typically want battery AND generator back up options, like
the ~15 year old SW did so easily. I have a client with an existing
diesel back up generator who wants it integrated into their new grid
tied with battery back up inverter. My solution? I decided to put a
generator transfer switch between the Outback inverter AC output and the
customers back up load sub panel. That way when the inverter shuts down
from low batteries, they can go start the genny and power the house off
it. No, this configuration will not charge the batteries off the
inverter, but it will get the house going and when the sun eventually
comes out, or the grid returns the batteries will be charged again. A
marginal resolution to a problematic design fault, but what else can we
do while we wait for a "new Outback company" that will address these
issues for the wrenches and customers that desire a product that works
like we need it to.

I have loved OB products, but this issue is leaving a very bad taste in
my mouth and reducing my enthusiasm for the company. The manufacturer
silence IMO only adds insult to injury.

Todd

Jeff Yago wrote:

> I know this thread has just about been beat to death, but I wanted to
> see if I could summarize everyones thoughts as we are getting ready to
> install this exact same system.
>
> Battery-based Outback Grid-tie Inverter system with about 2 kW solar and
> a 12 kW backup generator.  Client wants to sell any excess solar power
> as they are gone most of the week, but area has lots of power outages so
> generator backup is important.  Since no AC1 and AC2 inputs, the easiest
> route is to set up inverter as grid-tie, and use any excess solar for
> net metering.   Install a standard AC generator transfer switch ahead of
> inverter and its emergency panel loads.
>
> However, as everyone has already pointed out, the Outback will not
> handle this change properly without being told the input power supply is
> now a generator and not the grid.  How big a deal is this change-over
> for the client if they have a Mate?  Can this change-over be simplified
> or pre-programmed to only require a single command?  What is easiest
> program settings to stay with that reduces these control issues if the
> generator will only be used during an extended power outage?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff Yago
>
>

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