Utility requiring stamped one-line? [RE-wrenches]

[Conrad Geyser]

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Wow, never thought I'd hear such anarchy on this listserve.
Our permitting expenses can be as much as 20% of the overall cost on SDHW 
systems here in Massachusetts.
Every single town has their own permitting protocol and every inspector his 
own idiosyncrasies.
With most towns, we have to make two in person appearances at the building 
department to get a permit.  Then our plumber or electrician has to make an 
appearance.  The man hours and fuel wasted is sickening and the time is 
always taken from the most important people on the job.  As a result, it is 
more difficult to maintain quality control. The process is counter 
productive to what we are trying to do.
I have great reservations about the "age of regulation" as someone coined 
it....
Conrad
Cotuit Solar


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Travis Creswell" <tcreswell at ozarkenergyservices.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: RE: Utility requiring stamped one-line? [RE-wrenches]


>
> I completely agree with William.  We are going through this in Missouri
> right now.  The utility requires a "licensed electrician" or professional
> engineer to sign off on a grid tie installation.  This pure and simple is 
> a
> road block that the Utilities have inserted into our anti-net metering 
> law.
>
> Don't get me wrong.  Of course I fully support safe installations that are
> up to code.
>
> But additional inspections (permits, etc) that are not representative of
> what electrical work in that area would normally be subjected cannot be
> tolerated by us.  IE; if you are normally required to have an engineer 
> stamp
> a one line diagram to get a permit to add a clothes dryer plug in your 
> house
> then that same requirement is not out of line for installing a PV system.
>
> But in Missouri we do have not statewide electrician licensing program and
> I'm not asking my customers pay an engineer thousands of $'s to learn 
> about
> what's even signing off on.
>
> So in most places in Missouri (75%+), the homeowner or any jackleg can 
> wire
> up a house then call the utility to come hook up a service.  The utility
> hooks it up, assuming they don't see anything to out of line, and hangs
> around for a few minutes to see if the houses catches on fire.
>
> But if the same house wants to inter-tie then they have to have an 
> engineer
> or licensed electrician sign off.  It's a totally unreasonable and
> completely transparent obstruction. Keep in mind few areas even have a
> permit system and there no such thing as a licensed electrician in that
> area.
>
> Travis Creswell
> Ozark Energy Services
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Miller [mailto:wrmiller at charter.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:29 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: RE: Utility requiring stamped one-line? [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>
> Max:
>
> Maybe you need to update your curriculum.
>
> The need in the industry is to de-mystify residential grid-tie systems. 
> If
> we allow building officials, unions or utilities to build up the process 
> to
> appear more complicated than it really is, then installations cost more,
> there are fewer of them completed and the industry, the consumers and the
> environment loses.
>
> A small residential installation is not rocket science and we can not let
> any one try to say otherwise.  We need to fight this trend.
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
>
>
> At 12:38 PM 10/18/2006, you wrote:
>
>>Jeff, we've seen a move toward required engineering in most jurisdictions.
>>I've been a C10 since 1982 so we've done a lot of commercial design. I 
>>have
>>an engineer we work with that checks my drawings and gives me any imput I
>>need. We then e-mail him the cad files and he adds his stamp to them and 
>>we
>>print them and take them to the city. His charge is minimal compared to 
>>the
>>overall cost of the system.
>>The agencys here in the coachella valley (palm springs ca.) Are beginning
> to
>>ask for engineering on the small residential systems. I can't complain,
> I've
>>taught classes with a lot of them in attendance.
>>
>>
>>Max Balchowsky
>>SEE Systems
>>100 S. Sunrise wy # 285
>>Palm Springs, Ca. 92262
>>760-403-6810
>>
>>"Creating a Better Future For The Next Generation"
>>Creatin
>
>
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