'training' dedicated 'PV installers for' AC discos [RE-wrenches]

Sat Aug 26 11:08:45 PDT 2006

Hi Bill,

Thank you for the invite.  I feel very confident that your 3 day PV
installation class offers the most detailed, comprehensive and valuable PV
installer training available anywhere.  I'll keep an eye on your website for
definitive dates.  As you know, I've taken a number of your classes in the
past, including the 3 day session, and now I'm wondering if missing almost a
week in the field earning money will be outweighed by learning new
technicalities not presented in previous classes.  Have there been
significant PV technical advancements in the past couple of years, or new
critical safety issues that I must be aware of?  Maybe I'm feeling sarcastic
this morning, but it almost seems like there is a need for me to continually
budget time and capital, now, and in the future, to be directed towards
NABCEP sponsors and/or board members, to enable me to retain certification.
I have acquired a number of NABCEP approved continuing education credits
over the past few years, often out of town, and at least once the experience
seems more like attending a marketing session for products.  So, that said,
I honestly believe your training classes are the best, are focused entirely
on skills needed by installers, to enable PV installers to confidently do
the best work possible for consumers, and if I need continuing training, you
will be the person I seek.

Respectfully,
Graham

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Brooks [mailto:bill at brooksolar.com] 
Sent: Friday, August 25, 2006 9:03 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: 'training' dedicated 'PV installers for' AC discos
[RE-wrenches]

Graham,

How about a training class in September to get all 18 of your required
credits to maintain your credential? I'm trying to finalize a venue to hold
the class at the moment. The dates will either be Sept.  21-23 (Thurs.-Sat.)
or Sept. 25-27 (Mon.-Wed.). It is also intended to help those preparing for
the NABCEP exam on Sept. 30. I will have details on my website
www.brooksolar.com within a few days.

Bill.

-----Original Message-----
From: Graham Owen [mailto:graham at solarexpert.com] 
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:08 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: dedicated AC disconnects [RE-wrenches]

Hi Joel,

The requirement to place the AC disco outside a fenced property has been a
deal killer numerous times.  I looked at a few high profile individuals'
properties a couple of weeks ago, to bid gridtie installations, and the
disco outside the gate requirement proved to be unacceptable.  I don't know
which I find saddest, the LADWP Solar Program in general, or the fact that
my NABCEP Cert will expire in two months, due to PV inactivity while
installing solar thermal systems.

Graham Owen
GO Solar Company
NABCEP Certified Installer

-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:12 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: dedicated AC disconnects [RE-wrenches]

Greetings from LADWP (aka Relic-land),

Yesterday, at LADWP's new rebates training session we were told that a
utility tech has to specify where the visible, lockable AC disconnect switch
is placed and that repair crews sometimes forget to turn PV systems back on
so if you notice that your PV system is not producing power because it is
still locked out to call LADWP and they will send someone out to unlock your
PV system. Once again, LADWP recidivism trumps years of negotiating
disconnects 8 feet or within sight of the billing meter and months of a
union inspired PV system lockout.

Wearily yours,
Joel Davidson

-----Original Message-----
>From: Geoff Greenfield <Geoff at Third-Sun.Com>
>Sent: Aug 24, 2006 6:41 AM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: RE: dedicated AC disconnects [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>Hi Andrew -
>
>This is a relic of an issue and hopefully more and more utilities will 
>be going the way of your DC utility (and some west coast and one of the 
>utilities in our service area, Duke/Cinergy.)  Most of the utilities we
work
>with require a "visible, lockable, exterior disconnect".  We have been 
>educating them that this is redundant, never used, and a (most 
>effectively) that many utilities are skipping this requirement.  The 
>utility linesman still has the ability to pull the meter, but again, it 
>is a non-issue.
>
>This can be a very big expense in a school or large commercial building 
>where you could have a short, easy AC home run to the closest sub panel 
>VS
a
>long difficult Home Run to an appropriate exterior wall, then back to a 
>point of interconnection (and factoring in AC voltage drop and the 
>price of copper doubling every six minutes).
>
>Battery based systems with inverters listed for interconnection meet 
>the same standard.  You still need a way to isolate the inverter as per 
>NEC - often most easily done with the back fed AC breaker if you are 
>next to the panel, otherwise a non-fused Air Conditioning Disco is the 
>low cost option. While Fronius does have built in AC breaker - this 
>(and their built in DC
>breaker) does not meet a strict interpretation of the code.  The Xantrex GT
>set up does, with the "mothership/docking" top and bottom set up.
>
>Question:  Has anyone successfully argued that an exterior DC disco 
>(pole mounted for example) or wind tower mounted AC disco would meet 
>this utility requirement?
>
>For a brighter energy future,
>
>Geoff Greenfield
>NABCEP Certified Energy Practitioner
>
>THIRD SUN SOLAR & WIND POWER Ltd.
>340 West State Street
>Athens, OH 45701
>
>www.third-sun.com
>(740) 597-3111
>
>
>Date: Wed, 23 Aug 2006 22:32:47 -0400
>From: "Andrew Truitt" <atruitt at gmail.com>
>Subject: dedicated AC disconnects
>
>
>
>
>When I installed in California UL listed AC disconnects were mandatory 
>within 9' of the main meter.  Now I'm installing in DC and no such 
>regulation exists. I am wondering if dedicated AC disconnects are 
>really necessary for inverters with built in AC discos and automatic 
>shut-off at
AC
>signal loss considering a) there are always 2 means of disconnection - 
>the breaker and at the inverter and b) the grid will not be backfed as 
>long as no signal is present, eliminating the need for the linesman to 
>be able to disconnect the system.  2 caveats:
>
>1) Maybe, in the process of testing the lines during an outage, AC 
>signals are sent down the lines that could potentially restart the 
>inverter.
Though
>as soon as those signals ceased so would the inverter so I don't see it 
>as
a
>problem.
>
>2) I have very limited experience with battery/hybrid systems so if 
>they raise special circumstances then please enlighten me.
>
>Andrew Truitt
>Standard Solar
>
>
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