Blades / was tower vibration [RE-wrenches]

Roy Butler, Four Winds RE roy at four-winds-energy.com
Sun Apr 30 08:46:40 PDT 2006 

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I think I know what's causing the confusion here....2 very important 
factors that are often over looked.

The over all mass or weight of the turbine....and it's rpm range. In 
this discussion, I'll bet some people are thinking of the older Jakes 
and similar large, heavy, low rpm machines.

The old Whisper H1500 is a relatively light 77 pounds and an rpm at 
rated power over 1000.
Any amount of weight difference between the blades (3.5 oz is a 
significant amount!) will show up as vibration...causing tail waggle, 
tower and guy oscillation, down tower wire slapping, etc.

Compare this to a similar rated machine such as the AWP 3.6....250 
pounds and 350 rpm at rated power. We still need to balance these blades 
occasionally but it has a much greater tolerance to weight differences.
If you want vibration, try running the old 2 bladed Whisper 
1000.....used the same blades as the H1500...wood core. This machine was 
a bear to keep in balance....makes a great hobby!

As Bob said, automobile tires are a great example. 2 or 3 oz of weight 
can make a huge difference!

Roy Butler
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer 
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46
Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747
www.four-winds-energy.com



Bob Ellison wrote:

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>In the world of rotating blades 3.5 ounces is a HUGE difference! You want to
>aim for identical weights. Think about how much a couple ounces will make a
>tire and wheel shake.
>
>Bob  
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Darryl Thayer [mailto:daryl_solar at yahoo.com] 
>Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2006 11:03 PM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: RE: Blades / was tower vibration [RE-wrenches]
>
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>Kirk
>what is the total weight of the blade?  I am surprized that as little as 3.5
>OZ would cause such a large vibration?
>
>--- Kirk Herander <kirk at vtsolar.com> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>One of the blades is 3.5 oz. heavier than the other two. The blades 
>>appear to be in good shape w/ no balancing weights thrown off and no 
>>sign of cracking or water damage (these are wooden blades). Hard for 
>>me to believe they weren't imbalanced from day one. Go figure.
>>
>>Kirk Herander
>>Vermont Solar Engineering
>>802.863.1202
>>fax 802.863-7908
>>NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar PV Installer Xantrex Certified Dealer 
>>Charter Member NYSERDA-eligible installer VT Solar and Wind Partner
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Roy Butler, Four Winds RE
>>[mailto:roy at four-winds-energy.com] 
>>Sent: Wednesday, April 26, 2006 8:05 AM
>>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>Subject: Re: tower vibration [RE-wrenches]
>>
>>
>>Kirk,
>>
>>I've been running the same machine for 6 years now.
>>The only 2 
>>maintenance items I've ever done to it is balance
>>the blades and repair 
>>the tower mount insert.
>>Ian is right....it's likely originating from the
>>machine...out of 
>>balance blades is my guess.
>>
>>I see that Bob has offered you the blade balancing
>>procedure. It's quite
>>
>>easy.....off the tower that is!
>>FYI....check the tower insert for egging of the
>>mounting holes. You 
>>probably already did this...but it's worth a hard
>>look. The vibration 
>>almost always loosens the tower mount......and every
>>couple of years I 
>>have to cut the top 6" off the 2.5" pipe and drill
>>new holes.....
>>
>>Roy Butler
>>NABCEP Certified Solar PV InstallerR
>>NYSERDA eligible PV & wind installer 
>>Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
>>8902 Route 46
>>Arkport, NY 14807
>>607-324-9747
>>www.four-winds-energy.com
>>
>>
>>
>>Kirk Herander wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Hello,
>>>
>>>I have an old World Power H1500 (1500 watt) machine
>>>      
>>>
>>on an 80' homebrew
>>    
>>
>>>sectional steel pipe tower. It's in a high wind
>>>      
>>>
>>area, and has flown
>>with
>>    
>>
>>>no complaints for 7 + years. Several months ago,
>>>      
>>>
>>the tower started to
>>    
>>
>>>vibrate in high winds, maybe 15 + MPH, when the
>>>      
>>>
>>machine really starts
>>    
>>
>>>cooking. I lowered the tower expecting to find
>>>      
>>>
>>something obvious - but
>>    
>>
>>>no luck. The blades are on tight, the tail boom
>>>      
>>>
>>pivot bolt/bearings
>>look
>>    
>>
>>>fine, all bolts are tight, no problems with the
>>>      
>>>
>>machine that I can see.
>>    
>>
>>>When the tower is up and brake on, there is the
>>>      
>>>
>>normal several inches
>>of
>>    
>>
>>>deflection on all guys. But at those higher wind
>>>      
>>>
>>speeds the front and
>>    
>>
>>>rear middle and top guys develop at least a foot of
>>>      
>>>
>>"up and down"
>>    
>>
>>>deflection - it really looks scary - and the tower
>>>      
>>>
>>shakes big time.
>>What
>>    
>>
>>>am I missing? 
>>>Could the guys be too tight? Or too loose? Thanks.
>>>
>>>Kirk Herander
>>>Vermont Solar Engineering
>>>802.863.1202
>>>fax 802.863-7908
>>>NABCEP(tm) Certified Solar PV Installer
>>>Xantrex Certified Dealer Charter Member
>>>NYSERDA-eligible installer
>>>VT Solar and Wind Partner
>>>
>>>
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