!RE: Service Call Reimbursement [RE-wrenches]

Thu Jan 5 18:06:50 PST 2006

<x-flowed>
Hello Ezra,
Well said. Some vendors pay for shipping their failed parts back and forth. 
We have to keep in mind that manufacturers often release products that are 
not ready for prime time. Fortunately, PV system designers and customers are 
willing to take reasonable risks to be, what amounts to, beta testers. So 
it's reasonable, in turn, for manufacturers to pay for test failures. But, 
as you say, customers have to be told up-front that they are getting what is 
believed to be the latest and greatest product and they are only the (fill 
in the number) customer to get this product. Some customers will say, "Wow! 
I really want to be among the first." Others will say, "Ow! Give me 
something tried and true."
Joel Davidson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ezra Auerbach, DragonSun Consulting" <ezra at lasqueti.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 8:59 AM
Subject: Re: !RE: Service Call Reimbursement [RE-wrenches]

>
> Hi all,
>
> This thread is about the reasonable desire for working people to be
> compensated for their time and effort when they are called upon to repair
> or replace a manufacturers equipment. Just for the record I totally 
> support
> the notion that manufacturers should compensate installers for return
> visits if equipment if the manufacturer deems the equipment requires
> upgrading, repair or replacement (providing product failure is not caused
> by installation or environmental issues).
>
> An important part of our industry maturing is having the manufacturers who
> provide the technology being able to stand behind their products. There
> have been a number of expamples of companies doing the right thing in past
> years. Trace started it all off by reimbursing installers for their
> all-to-frequent calls to SunTie sites. If I recall correctly other 
> inverter
> manufacturers Xantrex and Fronius have service call policies. Last year
> UniRac did an excellent job of reaching out to installers on a product
> issue and they also arranged to pay a fee for the necessary service call.
>
> These are but a few examples of our industry growing up but there is
> another important side to this matter. If we truly expect our 
> manufacturers
> to cover the costs of service calls - especially off grid ones which
> involve hours of travel - we must expect to pay more for the products they
> sell us. At present most manufacturers include cost of warranty
> replacements into the price of the equipment and they figure on a certain
> percentage of failure. If we want them to include time and materials along
> with the cost of the equipment into their calculations we must expect to
> pay more for the equipment.
>
> I believe that most of us don't want to pay more for equipment, especially
> since we choose the products we sell on the basis of reliability and don't
> expect a high degree of failure. So I propose a alternative scenario:
>
> We certainly should expect all manufacturers to pay some reasonable amount
> for service calls necessitated by their materials or workmanship but we
> should also expect our customers to bear some of the risk and cost of
> service. This is most important off grid but also holds true in grid tie
> situations.
>
> Installers should advice their clients the limit and extend of the 
> warranty
> and that it doesn't cover the cost of the installers time. They should be
> then offered a choice of taking the risk of paying the installers time if
> necessary or buying a service agreement. Serivce agreements are very 
> common
> in other industries similar to ours and have proven to be profit centers
> for many businesses.
>
> Having said that I'd like to step back and look as some other industries
> and their examples of service. When I bought an expensive gas stove and
> lugged it all the way to our darned island only to find it had a non
> operable burner I was offered a box of parts but no service call. When my
> internet satellite dish required re-aiming (due the service providers'
> changes) I had to pay for the service call, and spend many a long hour on
> the phone getting a credit from the provider.
>
> When I compare our industry to others I am glad to see that we are
> demanding higher than usual standards for our customers, it bodes well for
> the future of solar.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ezra Auerbach
>
> DragonSun Consulting
> Marketing Services to the Renewable Energy Industry
>
> ezra at lasqueti.net
> 250 333 8650
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Barbra Kerr <bkerr at energy-exchange.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 4:56:27 PM
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Subject: !RE: Service Call Reimbursement [RE-wrenches]
>
>>
>> Fellow Wrenches -
>>
>> Please know that we have rather strong feelings in support of
> manufacturer's
>> reimbursing installers for service calls.  We became especially sensitive
> to
>> it after the Trace Inverter failures some years back.
>>
>> Some of our losses over the last two years:
>>
>> In '04 we spent over $2,600 running down and resetting/replacing chips 
>> for
>> EEprom errors.
>>
>> In '04 we spent over $11,000 replacing circuit boards for a module
>> manufacturer's monitoring system.  The manufacturer agreed to only
> reimburse
>> us 50%.  With that we refused to sell, install, or service anymore of the
>> monitoring systems.
>>
>> In '05 we spent more than $2,600 having replaced 32+ chips (EEprom). 
>> Some
>> were the ones we replaced the year before.
>>
>> In early '05 we replaced 2 bad modules (which were shipped back) with our
>> own stock and still have not been reimbursed by the module manufacturer.
>>
>> In an emerging industry, one would expect to "roll with it, giving and
>> taking as necessary" as the industry got its bearings, started to
> understand
>> the market, and worked out some basic distribution and quality control
>> issues.  One would also assume, while going through this process, 
>> policies
>> and procedures would be established to protect and nurture the 
>> "industry",
>> not just the manufacturer.  Many of us have not seen this.
>>
>> It is very disheartening to know that the installers are a vital key in
> the
>> efficient growth of this industry, the client's primary experience with
> this
>> emerging technology, and we hold the greatest risk and the shallowest
>> pockets, but don't seem to be compensated across the board by all
>> manufacturers.
>>
>> During the last three years in this industry, there has been a 
>> significant
>> shift away from a team building philosophy at the manufacturer through
>> installer level to a more depersonalized, everyone for themselves at the
>> manufacturer level.  The manufacturers' creating their own association
> was a
>> surprise to me at this early date as somehow I still felt there is far 
>> too
>> much work left to do in bringing PV into a sustainable industry in this
>> country.
>>
>> Depending on the hardware, manufacturers provide warranties 5-25 years
> long.
>> In my humble opinion, this issue speaks more to the manufacturer's
>> integrity, sense of responsibility regarding the performance of their
>> product, and their commitment to customer service.  Over the long-term,
> this
>> issue is one of customer service, and the current policy of not
> compensating
>> for service calls will only serve to hurt the industry and those
>> manufacturers that believe they can extract free service calls from
> factory
>> trained installers.  We have paid the manufacturer already for the
> privilege
>> to sell and install their products - I guess we now have to pay for the
>> privilege to service them as well!
>>
>> Allan, Jay - put me on your list of signatures to the appropriate
>> manufacturers!
>>
>> Barbra K. Kerr
>> President
>> Kerr Enterprises, Inc
>> PO Box 1992
>> Twain Harte, Ca 95383
>> 1-800-886-2258
>> 209-586-9607 Fax
>> 858-337-5097 Cell
>>
>>
>> - - - -
>> To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>>
>> Archive of previous messages:
> http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>>
>> List rules & how to change your email address:
> www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>>
>> Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>>
>> Hosted by Home Power magazine
>>
>> Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>>
>>
>
>
> - - - -
> To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
> Archive of previous messages: 
> http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read
>
> List rules & how to change your email address: 
> www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php
>
> Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/
>
> Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
> Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
> 

</x-flowed>