Welcome NABCEP members [RE-wrenches]

Sat Aug 26 10:05:44 PDT 2006

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Welcome NABCEP members. I invite you to search NABCEP in the RE-wrenches 
archive: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read

Around Christmas 2002, NABCEP said it was going to be strictly voluntary and 
Matt wrote that the certification juggernaut will be impossible to stop 
(below). Almost 4 years later, the PV world has changed dramatically. Over 2 
MW of PV are installed daily, IBEW's 750,000 members have staked their claim 
for PV work and tens of thousands of trained European and Japanese PV 
professionals are power blocs that command politicians' attention. Even 
all-powerful UL is being forced to recognize the global influence of the 
International Electrotechnical Commission's (IEC) on PV. NABCEP PV 
professionals deserve recognition for their knowledge and experience, but 
overwhelming market forces are bringing PV into the mainstream worldwide 
faster than this small, dedicated organization can or should attempt to 
control. I think it would serve the public and industry better if NABCEP 
offered its voluntary national certification program to a wider audience 
instead of allowing itself to be written into PV incentive program 
requirements.

Joel Davidson

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "matthew tritt" <solarone at charter.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: NABCEC [RE-wrenches]

> Travis,
>
> Way to go Dude (ya!) Your arguments are well thought out and right on
> target. Being in California tends to make you forget how things were (and
> still are in the rest of the country) just a very, very short time ago.
> I also still do plenty of small (and large) off-grid jobs for people who
> don't have access to any of the available state or federal money that 
> drives
> the current trends in PV because I like that side of the business, and the
> folks are usually really happy to see your face at the door.
>
> All this certification momentum is a juggernaut launched by temporary
> opportunity, but once it gathers way will be impossible to stop for any of
> us, even if we decide we don't like it after all the funding dries up and
> blows away in the detritus of our faltering state budget.
>
> Many interested parties remind us that the whole process is "strictly
> voluntary", but I agree with you;
> simply by default, those who don't volunteer will be squished out of the
> business in the end, either by poorly informed state requirement, or 
> simply
> by zealous behavior of bigger businesses. Not to imply that the backers of
> the certification program don't have our collective best interest in mind,
> they do. It's just the nature of things that programs like this eventually
> become onerous regardless of intentions.
>
> I'll probably have to go for the cert. just to keep up with the
> competition - as will most of us I suppose.
> I believe that most work is done pretty well these days by most of the
> people in the business though, and don't see the driving need for the
> program that many others do I guess. I also believe that the current
> licensing requirements tend to work adequately. Maybe that's just a myopic
> view of someone who lives in a semi-rural part of the country who doesn't
> see the glaring examples of crappy installations that those in "town" do.
> Who knows?
>
> Matt
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar" <ozsolar at ipa.net>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 7:52 PM
> Subject: Re: NABCEC [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>>
>>
>> Dang... all of this NABCEP stuff is really making my head hurt.  I've 
>> just
>> got to say say a few things.  Mostly well thought out criticisms and a
>> little ranting so here goes....
>>
>> I'm all for qualified people doing the things that they are licensed to
> do.
>> But do any other of the installing/construction/service trades (not
>> "certified energy planners, auditors", etc) have National Certification
>> Programs? (no they don't)  I'm already licensed, insured and bonded.  Am 
>> I
>> not smart enough to educate myself on how to properly install equipment?
>> Are my potential customers so naive that they are afraid to ask hard
>> questions?  How long have you been in business?  Can I see proof of
>> insurance?  What about your references?
>>
>> And why should I, in a region where most renewable energy installations
> are
>> undertaken by homeowners who buy the material from the cheapest solar.com
> of
>> the day and pay some uninsured, unlicensed hippie fed up with California
> (ya
>> dude, like I did solar in California) stranded in the Ozarks $12/hr to
>> install it, undertake the time and expense of becoming NABEC certified?
> A
>> certification process that requires I travel to a facility a thousand
> miles
>> away to take the test at my expense.  It also requires that I maintain
> CEU's
>> and re-certify every three years?  Remember, no real construction trade
> has
>> a national certification program.  The additional costs of being NABEC
>> Certified means I have to charge more than I already do.  Some people who
>> call me think that anything over $20/hr is high.  Needless to say, I 
>> don't
>> work for them anyway but that's a different story.
>>
>> I've said it again and again.  Customers who put blind faith in a
>> "certified" installers certification will get took to the cleaners every
>> time.  And dang it people wake up.... this NABEC thing stands for
> everything
>> most of us are in the business to avoid.  Quit hitting the snooze button.
>> Can't you see it!  As much as I hate to admit it, the only way solar it
>> going to grow is through heavy local, state and federal subsidies (or
>> through RPS' etc).  If NABEC gets their way, the only was this money is
>> going to get dispersed is through "certified" installations which is 
>> going
>> to leave most of the little guys out, which appears to be the very idea 
>> of
>> NABEC to me.
>>
>> Let's consider this scenario.  We'll use my state, Missouri, for example.
>> To my knowledge there might be two installers in the state who could even
>> begin to come close to meeting the requirements for NABEC certification.
>> Suddenly, one of our utility companies receives a major fine for some
>> business or environmental no-no.  They cough up 2 billion dollars to be
>> dispersed for various public benefit projects and 50 million goes for PV
>> installations.  (Forget the fact the SDHW would do a lot more good)  Or 
>> we
>> get a RPS, or a state funded buy down program.  It doesn't really matter
>> what the source of the money is, it's just there all at once.
>>
>>  In sweeps NABEC to help my state officials make sure that the
> installations
>> are "done right" and to make sure that only definition of "done right" is
>> the NABEC definition.  Here is where the "voluntary" certification lie
> falls
>> apart.  If you want to do any install work with this money you'll HAVE to
> be
>> NABEC certified. That's a sure thing.  How voluntary is that?  But who 
>> can
>> afford to send folks away for training and certification testing?  The
> same
>> folks who will make sure that there are "field experience waivers"
> available
>> to those who are in a apprenticeship programs.  Don't make me spell it 
>> out
>> for you, brother(hood).   That means that no small time, one person solar
>> shops grow because all they've done are off grid installations which 
>> don't
>> go towards NABEC experience requirements. (Correct me if I'm wrong)  The
>> same shops that have scraped out a meager living driving 3 hrs one way
> doing
>> installations waiting for solar to take off.  Attended numerous County
>> Fairs, never selling a darn thing... Patiently explained to thousands of
>> people that conservation comes first and the cost effective applications
> of
>> solar are knowing that it was always going to end with the same statement
>> "solar is just too expensive".  The same shops who will be left after the
>> money dries up to get calls from really angry folks with dead systems
>> installed by big shops who no longer work on solar.   Not to mention 
>> there
>> will be some real messes to clean up made by folks who were certified.
> This
>> would describe a lot states, not just my state.
>>
>> Even if the little shop can afford the time and hassle of the
> certification
>> the process, it will take 6 months and probably a year to get certified.
>> By then, all of the big shops from CA will have set up temporary offices
> in
>> the state gobbling up the money as fast as they can (ya dude).
>>
>> NABEC Certification is just plain bad business for most installers and if
> I
>> wasn't so dang busy making real money on the other parts of my business
>> (saving loads of kWh's) I might just do something about it.  Why should
>> Re-Wrenches undertake something that we don't need, take a test made by
>> people who know less about solar than most of us, increase our hourly
> rates
>> to make up for the lost time in training and added additional costs, and
> the
>> list goes on and on.
>>
>> Whew,  I feel better now.
>>
>> Asbestos impregnated flame shields up.
>>
>> Travis Creswell
>> Ozark Energy Services

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