Outback MX60 question [RE-wrenches]

Thu Dec 22 19:17:00 PST 2005

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Chris,
I am answering on-list only because I judge that one further round of
discussion will be of benefit to other Wrenches as well. Thank you for your
prompt and thoughtful response. We have adopted the MX60 as our default
controller of choice in most new systems, and in any system where a high
voltage array to a 48V battery is appropriate, or where the headroom of high
input current is needed. So we have sold and installed quite a few units.

You say you "trust that the repaired/replacement unit is working well."
Well, no. We bought a new replacement unit and installed it at the site,
which is 120 miles from our shop. The failed unit was repaired and upgraded
and returned to us; the customer got a new one. The repaired unit's now our
field replacement, in case a failure (on any system, for any cause) occurs
again. I have since learned that I may request a "remanufacture" rather than
"repair", and get a new case and current serial number with the same guts,
but this one can't be sold as new. Am I complaining? Only about the amount
the incident cost us in labor, travel, and replacement merchandise. Am I
worried this will occur again? Yep. That's why we have the repaired one, I
guess.

The failed unit was serial #4681, installed 2/05 and purchased from Conergy
stock. Should Conergy have returned this unit rather than selling it? Any
idea on which manufacturing dates are most likely to have this problem?
Would you advise that we preemptively replace any MX60s that are now in the
field (especially with our more paranoid customers)? Will you upgrade under
warranty any units that we swap out that haven't failed yet? If so, which
ones?

If I (and other Wrenches) contact you off-line, can we negotiate a stipend
for the service call? I understand your position re "excessive travel" being
the customer's issue; we are just foolish enough to offer a blanket two-year
warranty on our installed systems, and it would be hard to charge travel,
especially in the first year.

Thank you for a second round of carefully crafted response, Christopher.
Allan

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Christopher Freitas --- OutBack Power" <cfreitas at outbackpower.com>

Allan -
I am sorry to hear of your problem with one of our MX60 controllers. I
trust that the repaired/replacement unit is working well.

We did have an issue with the Atmel microcontrollers about a year ago.
We responded quickly to the problem - shutting down all MX60 production
and putting all of our engineering resources on the problem for about
three weeks.  We identified the hardware issue and came up with a fix
for it in the microcontroller software code.  Extensive in house testing
completed on a 24 hour basis for over a week proved the fix and we began
shipping again.  All available stock in North America  at our
distributors was brought back to Arlington for reflashing of the code
and retesting to ensure proper performance.  Product at our
international distributors was upgraded at their locations.

As far as when this issue with the Atmel processors started - we are not
sure.  We do not get the processors from Atmel in a certain order  -
i.e.  a delivery of processors can have some from one "batch"   mixed up
with other "batches" which did not have this issue.  Atmel has not been
helpful with this problem and, to my knowledge, still denies any problem
even though we gave them the data showing it.

So - I understand your pain regarding the cost of the repair - we also
spent over $100,000 on this issue and are not being compensated either.
We are, of course, honoring the warranty on any units which fail.  The
experience so far suggests that the unit will most likely fail under
cloudy conditions often at lower power levels and it will typically
happen within the first year of operation.  We have seen less than 10%
of the units built in the period just prior to the software fix affected
by this problem.

We are willing to discuss compensation for any warranty or even
non-warranty problems with any dealer who feels it is justifed on a
case-by-case basis.  We do have to draw the line at excessive travel
costs as that is really an issue the customer has to be responsible for
themselves.

I wish there was a simple solution to identify the MX60s which will be
affected by this issue - but there just is not a simple way to identify
them.  If the controller is operating correctly for the warranty period
it is most likely to not have the issue and should operate successfully
for many, many years.

We will upgrade the firmware of any MX60s at no charge and we also will
pay for the return shipping as well.  Please contact us for an RMA
number prior to shipping to ensure that the unit is handled promptly
when it shows up here.  You will need to have the serial number of the
MX60 controller in order to get an RMA number.  Early MX60 controllers
can also be upgraded to include the data logging system for an
additional charge.

We all at OutBack appreciate the support and understanding nature of the
wrench community.  We hope everyone has an enjoyable and safe holiday.

Christopher

Christopher Freitas
OutBack Power Systems, Inc.
cfreitas @ outbackpower.com
www.outbackpower.com
Arlington WA USA
Tel 360 435 6030

Allan Sindelar wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
> We recently had an in-warranty MX60 failure, and given the explanation
> from
> Outback, I'm posting here to find out if this is a common enough failure
> for
> us to plan some pre-emptive replacement of a few other MX60s.
>
> An MX60 in a PS2 offgrid application (1900W 72V array into 48V battery)
> failed and was reported by the customer. He saw blank screen and no
> output;
> a reboot caused it to actually charge partially. We determined the
> MPPT/voltage conversion had failed, but the straight-through partial
> charging carried the customer along for 5 days until I could get out
> with a
> replacement. Sent the unit in for repair and got the unit back repaired
> and
> upgraded.
>
> A call afterwards requesting explanation of what happened taught me
> this:
> Outback found a "glitch in the silicone in the Atmel processor". The
> flaw
> would sometimes short the FETs momentarily when the unit turned on. It
> also
> in the process welds the relay contacts closed (which is what allowed it
> to
> charge some even though it had failed).
>
> I was told that Outback found a firmware reprogram that worked around
> the
> glitch, and applied it to all controllers after serial #7385 (I think
> they're somewhere around #11,000 now). They also recalled some
> distributor
> stock to do this repair before they went into the field.
>
> Who else has had a similar failure? Anyone had more than one? This was
> an
> expensive callback that was fully on our nickel. Anyone at Outback wish
> to
> clarify what I have written here? Anybody at Outback wish to offer a
> recall
> program for MX60s in a certain range, with a reimbursement for the
> service
> call to do a replacement? (Dream on, solar bozo...)
>
> Thanks for any responses here.
> Allan at Positive Energy

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