CA. Senate Bill 1 [RE-wrenches]

Fri Jun 3 10:11:25 PDT 2005

Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Get a Free T-Mobile Sidekick II plus $500 towards service! 
Click here.
http://click.topica.com/caadAcqbz8Qcsbz9JC9a/ProductTestPanel
-------------------------------------------------------------------

Jeff & Todd -

I agree with you both, there are some great C-46s and some really poor
C-10s.  Jeff - thanks for clarification in New York state vs communities.
The New York communities we have served require an electrical contractor.

Please know that B's are allowed by the CSLB to complete a small percentage
of specialty trade services, and as it relates to the "bigger scope of
services being provided".  Should you find a B contractor doing only PV or
SHW then they are working outside their license and in violation of the law.

In California, contractors are able to file complaints either with the
building department and/or the CSLB.  I have been a proponent for the
protection of our growing industry from opportunists undermining consumer
confidence in the technology because of poor installation and
under-performing systems.  

When we come upon a poor installation, shouldn't we notify the building
department and license board?  This is as much for the protection of these
agencies as well as the consumer.  When there is a fire, and there will be
one, what will the headlines read?  The building agency will be brought into
the homeowner's lawsuit.  The licensing board will confirm that the
company(s) involved are/were properly licensed to do the work.  So, do we
wait until this event to take action?  Or, do we take action when we see the
same contractor putting in the wrong disconnect, or consistently finding
ground wires left ungrounded.  It would help if all of us participated and
attended their local building inspectors meetings.  

In San Diego, the top building inspectors meet once a month for 2 hours to
speak about upcoming changes to the NEC, discuss why or why not it should be
apart of it.  The contractors bring field issues that need resolution.  For
the last 2 years PV installation issues have been brought before this group
almost every meeting, and we get decisions/resolutions immediately.  The
others, not a part of this meeting, get to find out about the changes at the
building department counter.  Many times it has been the inspectors that
have brought up issues and questions, and asked the PV contractors for input
and possible resolutions.  They have also asked us to let them know how an
infield contractor could BS the onsite inspector; where someone might take
short cuts.  The inspectors want to be educated in detail.

These meeting must also be going on in other counties and states. 

Barbra K. Kerr
President
Kerr Enterprises, Inc
PO Box 1992
Twain Harte, Ca 95383
1-800-886-2258
209-586-9607 Fax
858-337-5097 Cell

-----Original Message-----
From: Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services
[mailto:toddcory at finestplanet.com] 
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 9:32 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re: CA. Senate Bill 1 [RE-wrenches]

Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Erase wrinkles without Botox! Nexiderm SP is clinically proven to 
reduce wrinkles by 68% Click here to get your 30-day free supply.
http://click.topica.com/caadAckbz8Qcscf6iRFa/Nexiderm
-------------------------------------------------------------------

I also have seen some mighty poor electrical work done by "B" general
contractor
license holders. I am totally amazed they are allowed to do electrical work
and
it makes a mockery of those of us that got C-10's.

Todd

Barbra Kerr wrote:

>
> I guess I will put my two cents in on this topic and you may want to give
> right back to me!
>
> Please know that the NECA/IBEW labor unions are the behind this particular
> part of the bill.    Please also know that I am a member the Associated
> Builders & Contractors (ABC) a merit shop (Non-union) contractor's trade
> association. As a holder of both a C-10 and B license, I am in favor of
this
> requirement, primarily for the following reasons.
>
> 1.  The NEC (the guiding light and bible of any decent electrician) is
first
> and foremost written for the protection of life, life safety, and property
-
> not to insure that anything particular system or component will work.  As
an
> electrician ALL of my education, training, and in field experience is
> primarily focused on these three things - and then on engineering a system
> that will perform within these guidelines. This is hammered home day-in &
> day-out, and we carry our bible with us throughout the business day.
C-46's
> (Plumbers) are not indoctrinated into or under the NEC code and therefore
do
> not possess (in general) the detailed knowledge required to perform this
> work.
> 2.  The only common scopes of work between a C-46 and C-10 are:
>         a.  Roof mounting integration
>         b.  Ground mount structures
>         c.  Trench design (in most cases)
>         d.  The securing of "collectors" (water or PV) to a racking
system.
>      From this point on our scopes of work differ dramatically.
>
> 3.  Electrical interconnection:
>
>         C-46's are not trained in derating of main services, CB retaining
> clips, or GROUNDING.  They are not trained in box and wire fill, or wire
> sizes and voltage drops.  They are not trained to recognize if an existing
> service needs to be replaced even if spaces are existing, they are not
> trained to do load calcs, or recognize an existing fire hazard or what to
do
> to prevent one.  They are not trained in using electric meters to check
> voltages, current readings, and troubleshooting of electrical systems.  In
> other states, such as New York and New Jersey ONLY a C-10 can touch 600v
> wire and/or the main service.  This also goes for connecting the modules
in
> series, and the strings in parallel.
>
> These are my main reasons for supporting C-10s doing this work.
>
> Now that having been shared, PLEASE KNOW THAT THERE ARE ONLY A HANDFUL OF
> C-46's in SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA THAT HAVE LEARNED MUCH OF THIS AND DO
> EXCELLENT, EXCELLENT WORK - These people I know personally. And when I
have
> competed against them and lost - I let the clients know that they will do
a
> great job for them.
>
> Graham is right about the Scope of work defined in the CSLB.  When have we
> known our government to be ahead of the curve?  Until a few years ago,
there
> was no such thing as Grid tied PV. 99.9% of PV was off grid in the outback
> or remote locations.  No reason to include the building/utility officials
or
> train people.   Let's face it, as this industry grows, the systems
> (government, building, etc...) will change until we hit static and have
all
> the kinks and concerns addressed.
>
> Finally, there is nothing stopping a C-46 from testing for their C-10
>
> Barbra K. Kerr
> President
> Kerr Enterprises, Inc
> PO Box 1992
> Twain Harte, Ca 95383
> 1-800-886-2258
> 209-586-9607 Fax
> 858-337-5097 Cell

Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Get a Free Sirius Satellite Package, don't pass on this!
http://click.topica.com/caadAcobz8Qcscf6iRFf/ProductTestPanel
-------------------------------------------------------------------

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read

List rules & etiquette: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

Your free subscription is supported by today's sponsor:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Need a Laptop? Get a Sony Vaio Laptop Free!
http://click.topica.com/caadAcrbz8Qcsbz9JC9f/ProductTestPanel
-------------------------------------------------------------------

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://lists.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/read

List rules & etiquette: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquette.php

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
--^----------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9.bWljaGFl
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

For Topica's complete suite of email marketing solutions visit:
http://www.topica.com/?p=TEXFOOTER
--^----------------------------------------------------------------