tankless electric water heater [RE-wrenches]

Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar ozsolar at ipa.net
Tue May 31 10:30:52 PDT 2005


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Bill pretty much covered it all.  We've wired a few of the electric models
in factories for the bathroom hand washing.  Great application, by the way.


But at 208v you will get significantly less performance then at 240. Ohms's
Law tells us that lower voltage will result in less watts for the heating of
water since the resistance of the heating element is fixed.

The ones we installed were meant for 240 but could also be used at 208.  The
customer loved them until winter arrived.  The incoming water cooled down
just enough that just barely lukewarm water was available.  I checked it out
and found it to be operating properly.  

>From a contractors/installer and call back standpoint there are way more
quirks with both the electric and gas tankless units than we care to deal
with.  We pretty much stay away from them now a days.


Good Luck,
Travis Creswell
Ozark Energy Services, Inc.


-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Loesch, Saint Louis Solar [mailto:bill_loesch at compuserve.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 11:35 AM
To: INTERNET:RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: tankless electric water heater [RE-wrenches]

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Message text written by  Kurt Albershardt <info at es-ee.com>
>
I've got a project that needs a tankless electric water heater and am
wondering if anyone here has experience (bad or good) to report from the
Seisco, Bosch, or Eemax units.

This will be a 208V application and a dual element design would be
preferred, since we will have limited current available until some wiring
upgrades are complete.


--thanks
<

Kurt,

There are two major distinctions between all tankless electric
manufacturers (and there are a _lot_ more elec tankless than gas tankless):

Some of the manufacturers (like Eemax) use a bare wire immersed in the
water flow to directly heat the water.

Others (Redring, Stiebel Eltron) use a heating wire covered by a copper
jacket.

Probably not a lot of difference between the two techniques unless water
scale becomes an issue. The bare wire sheds the scale much better than the
jacketed wire. 

Once you have determined which of the wire heating methods you prefer, look
at how easy it is to replace a single element rather than the entire unit. 

While it will require more effort initially, if you install the tankless
using proper (non dielectric) unions, full port ball valves on _both_ inlet
and outlet and hose bibs on both inlet and outlet you will save yourself
and subsequent service providers significant amounts of time (and money).
Webstone (webstonevalves.com) manufacturers the above parts into a compact
assembly you might consider for appearance as well as saving your own
installation time. The hot side Webstone combo isolation and service valve
also includes a port for the _pressure_ relief valve (not T&P).

Kurt, you have not identified what you want to do with the water (sink,
shower, washing machine, etc. which will determine flow rate) nor have you
identified what the temperature rise you need for your climate. Both
important considerations if you want to have satisfied hot water users when
winter comes with a potential for much colder inlet water than sumertime
inlet water temperatures. 

If you have limited electric capacity, the only real variable you have is
flow reduction to give the heater the time necessary to heat during the
colder winter months. I'm told that 1.3GPM showers exist, I have not yet
experienced them.

Any room for a temperating tank ahead of the tankless? Solar assisted
temperating tank?

Good luck with the application. 

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar

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