el sid question [RE-wrenches]

[Conrad Geyser]

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Jay,
    I echo Brads comment about not using plastic pipe in the loop to the
panels.  Sooner or later there will be a situation (power failure, control
glitch...) where live steam will be fed down the return pipe. Unless you
have old Daystar collectors with their goofy overheat dump loop.
    As far as overheat protection, diversion loops are sometimes used(good
for dehumidifying damp basements!) but usually the system just goes on
heating the tank(at least if it's glycol).  The efficiency drops
precipitously with the increasing temperature and eventually approaches zero
somewhere in the 160 - 200 F range.  This just packs away more storage for
spanning cloudy spells but can be hard on the tanks.  Stainless steel is
nice for taking the abuse!

happy heating,
Conrad Geyser
Cotuit Solar
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jay Peltz, Peltz Power" <jay at asis.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 10:34 AM
Subject: Re: el sid question [RE-wrenches]


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>
> Hi Brad thanks,
>
> What about using 2 x 20 watt panels instead of 1 x 40 watt?
>
> And I'm guessing that the 20v is a hard limit.  That could be a
> problem on some cold winter morniings here?
>
> Are the smaller units more resistant to this?
> I hook the smaller units in series or parallel?
>
> My system (yet to be completed) will have 4 3x7' glass/copper
> collectors on it.  They will be below the tank and be around oh
> around 50' of piping away.
>
> I'm going to use 3/4" pipe , combination of CPVC, and copper pipe.
>
>    I've sized this system to produce much energy in the winter months.
>
> I'm still working on a automatic covering system that will shade the
> panels when the tank gets hot enough.
>
> thanks,
>
> jay
>
>
> On May 15, 2005, at 8:07 PM, bbassett at rockisland.com wrote:
>
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> >
> > Jay,
> >
> > I have an El Sid 20PV pump in my SDHW system. Keep in mind that it
> > takes
> > 1.1 amps to get it started. I'm using a 30watt module so it takes
> > about
> > 1/2 sun to start it. When we have partly hazy days sometimes it
> > doesn't
> > start when I could be collecting a goodly amount of heat. Then when it
> > does start I get a really hot slug of fluid through the system. I
> > don't
> > think this is conducive to long glycol life. It keeps running until
> > pretty low light once it gets going. It pumps fine at over 2gpm
> > through
> > a single 4x10 collector and low restriction heat exchanger (coil in
> > tank) with about 35% glycol. Dan did let me try out a circuit board he
> > made to help with the startup, and it worked fine while it worked, but
> > didn't work very long, and the electronics were exposed to being
> > touched
> > and possibly easily damaged, so was not really a solution yet.
> >
> > So if you really wanted to use one I would couple it to a 40 watt
> > module
> > or greater, making sure that it won't ever go over the 20 volt
> > limit for
> > the pump. Good luck finding a 40 watt module, much less one with lower
> > voltage! Maybe the fountain pump module AEE has would be a good match,
> > hi amperage, low voltage 28 watt, although I prefer glass framed
> > modules
> > for long life to match the heating collectors. I've had good luck with
> > the smaller ElSid pumps, both PV and battery versions. I would
> > consider
> > using two of the ElSid-10PV pump, even if it is expensive, and a
> > 30watt
> > module. My experience with two Hartell pumps on one module is that it
> > works very well. There's plenty of amps that starts one pump and then
> > the other one starts immediately after, so you might get good low sun
> > performance. I haven't tried this with two ElSid pumps, but give Dan a
> > call and ask him what he thinks.
> >
> > I tried one of the new Laing DC pumps last year, and found that it
> > didn't start on PV at all. It also made the most hideous wailing noise
> > I've ever heard while sitting there doing nothing. I've heard that
> > they
> > work with an LCB, but don't know how well. They also didn't seem to
> > have
> > a clue about what is required for a PV direct pump (or much of
> > anything
> > else), even though they advertise that these pumps can be used that
> > way.
> >
> > I just R&R a collector, for reroofing, that I installed about 15 years
> > ago that had an early version of the brushless Hartell pump (before
> > the
> > little pancake motor was used). The system had an old Solarex 10 watt
> > module that tested OK still. It started with about 20% sun or less,
> > just
> > barely turning over, but the warm fluid did come down the pipe! And
> > with
> > good sun ran very nicely. It was quiet too. I wish I could get these
> > again.
> >
> > Actually my favorite was an old tiny Laing pump (very efficient)
> > that I
> > coupled to a 10 watt de-bladed brushless DC fan. It worked great,
> > but my
> > epoxied together shaft didn't last very long. So this is not a hard
> > nut
> > to crack, someone just needs to do it right.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> >
> > jay peltz wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> I am planning on using a el sid 20 watt version on a glycol 4 panel
> >> system, off grid, array direct.
> >>
> >> Anybody know of any problems with this unit?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >>
> >> jay
> >>
> >> peltz power
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
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