Grid-Tie Inverters with Batteries [RE-wrenches]

Ezra Auerbach, DragonSun Consulting ezra at lasqueti.net
Mon Aug 16 19:52:24 PDT 2004


 

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Hi,

I'm pleased to chime in here, although being a long-time off grider my
prejudicews towards energy storage will show.  I always view SB type
systems as great entry level PV systems and wonder why more folks wouldn't
go a bit further to take more "ownership" of their electricity and the
probability of its supply.  I guess it's because they have more faith in
the 'infrastructure' than I do...

On the subject of GT with batteries inverters I can contribute on the M5.
It has been out in the field for over six months. I have actively tracked a
number of them while I've been doing some work for Beacon.  I can report
that all are performing without reported glitchs and there have been no
software upgrades required. A number of the systems are within our
industry, in fact one backs up the office of a well known northern
California wholesaler.  The owner and staff report seamless performance.

They sell during the day, don't use utility power at night, don't have
settings for end users to fiddle with, and generally come as close as
possible to providing an invisible battery based PV experience.

More information can be found in the likely places, and I'll be happy to be
contacted off list for more on this subject.

Best regards,

Ezra Auerbach
DragonSun Consulting

250 333 8650




----- Original Message -----
From: Allan Sindelar <allan at positiveenergysolar.com>
Sent: Monday, August 16, 2004 6:46:52 PM
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Subject: Re: Grid-Tie Inverters with Batteries [RE-wrenches]

>  
> 
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> 
> Wrenches,
> Having read all of the other responses to date, let me offer a slightly
> different perspective. In the Santa Fe region we have reliable grid power
> from PNM, primarily coal-fired with long-term purchase contracts
> (environmental consequences not included in this post) at about $.08/kwhr
> base residential rate, and no state incentives yet. So our typical client
> has "green" as his or her primary motivation, not economics. The
> maintenance-free aspect of the Sunny Boy batteryless systems has a major
> appeal to this client type. We make it clear up front that if the utility
is
> down, so are they, but for the green client, pointing out that this is no
> different than before they added solar is usually sufficient.
> 
> We ask for "primary motivation" as one of our top initial questions of a
> lead. If it's "to reduce my electric bill" we give them some good handouts
> on efficiency improvements and gently show them the door. If it's "clean
> solar power" and "power during outages" doesn't come up in the initial
> answer, we encourage batteryless grid-tie. To date, only if "power during
> outages" comes up as a primary response do batteries figure into the
> equation and our design recommendations.
> 
> The Outback GT option has only been available for a few months, and we're
> having trouble getting product promptly anyway. We have been waiting for
> good field reports and a track record before designing around the Beacon
M5,
> having been burned once with AEI. Up to now, if someone has asked for GT
> with battery backup, we have told them to wait for awhile, as the current
> technology (SW/GTI or, previously, AEI M5000) is inefficient and
cumbersome,
> and the next generation (GTFX) is just around the corner. Now with the
> Outback we're ready to offer GT with backup (and long lead times).
> 
> Also, b'less GT is easy to add to most homes' existing wiring. Adding
> batteries requires a fair amount of field rewiring to allow a second
> critical loads breaker panel. We can do it, but it's more labor and is
hard
> to work into a  fixed price proposal, which most customers prefer.
> 
> My $.02...
> Allan at Positive Energy
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Joel Davidson" <joeldavidson at earthlink.net>
> 
> I've often said that if we did our grid-tied PV system now, we would use a
> batteryless inverter instead of our SW4048 with batteries because today's
> batteryless systems cost less and produce more energy. However, the new
> grid/battery inverters have me thinking about the value of grid-tie PV
with
> battery backup.
> 
> Just how often do power outages really happen? We have had only 3 grid
> outages since June 1998 totaling 45 hours. Two outages were energy crisis
> rolling blackouts and one was a neighborhood pole-mounted transformer that
> burned out.
> 
> Those of you with batteryless PV, how many grid/PV outages have you had in
> how many years? What about your customers? Do you think the new grid-tie
> inverters with batteries are worth the extra system cost?
> Joel Davidson
> 
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