how to save a home with solar pool heating [RE-wrenches]

Matt Tritt solarone at charter.net
Mon Nov 10 08:59:39 PST 2003 

Tom, this is a really great tip. This deserves the good idea of the
month award!

Matt T

-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Lane, Energy Conservation Services
[mailto:solar8 at ehostingbiz.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 8:39 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: Re:how to save a home with solar pool heating [RE-wrenches]


How to save your house with a solar pool heater
When people have a solar pool heater, they can run a secondary line with
a cut off ball valve with sprinklers along the top of their roof. just
above the solar pool heating system.when a fire occurs, open the ball
valve to the sprinkler system, have a generator big enough to start and
run the 1-11/2 horsepower pool pump in the event of a power
outage.guarantee that this will save your home. most pools have 15 to 20
thousand gallons pour about 50 gallons of dishwashing detergent into the
pool like Duz, or Ivory etc.,to act as a surfactant. if you decide to
stay in the home, during the fire you may want to get a mask and a
snorkel, or scuba gear to jump into the pool when the fire gets really
close. Don't laugh, I know people who during the 80"s who used such a
system to save their home, even if you do not have a pool heating system
you can rig this setup if you have a swimming pool with a generator and
or inverter battery bank setup. There is no reason a person should lose
their home if they have 15 to 20 thousand gallons of water in their
swimming pool. I have worked as a firefighter for the US.SO.Forest
service, and bureau of Indian Affairs in the late 60"so and early 70"so,
all solar contractors especially swimming pool contractors should offer
this type of setup in high risk fire areas where there is a swimming
pool at the home.
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <mlafferty at universalenergies.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, November 10, 2003 9:19 AM
Subject: RE: California Fires and PV [RE-wrenches]


> Joel D wrote:
>
> >  The PV system was working fine because neighborhood power was
> restored by hard-working Southern California Edison crews.
>
> Joel,
>
> Thanks for clarifying that so quickly!  My response to your original 
> post would NOT have been so "paranoid" sounding if this sentence had 
> been included there.  My hat is and always has been, off to the Guys 
> and Gals that work their butts off to restore power and other 
> necessary infrastructure after disasters.
>
> I left something out of my original response, as well.... The news 
> that the PV system was working is a fine and encouraging testament. 
> Congratulations to you and the homeowner!
>
> All:
>
> I hope it was clear in my message that I was posing as "Devil's 
> Advocate", as opposed to actually being "The Devil".  I admit it may 
> have sounded paranoid and overly critical.  It was intended to.
>
> I don't "come from" the same place the, as Matt T says, "Dark Side" 
> does.... I do know where they are coming from..... It's a paranoid and

> overly critical place... In my opinion, with regard to Utilities, PV 
> and inverter based RE, it is feigned and fantasy at this point.  A 
> position they maintain so they can feel "in control".
>
> With thousands and thousands of units deployed across the country in 
> the last 5 years, they still can't point to any "negative" safety or 
> operational related incidents to my knowledge.
>
> The only "negatives" that I can think of, stem from their own 
> inability to effectively and efficiently handle "their side" of it....

> Things like billing, paperwork, engineering, inspections.... Following

> "the rules" primarily... Administrative and procedural things.... 
> These "negatives" are self-imposed due to their own internal 
> structures, culture, and processes.  Oh, they also don't "like" the 
> fact that Net-Metering was legislatively imposed on them, thereby 
> forcing them to do something that is counter to their "control" 
> culture.
>
> The lack of ACTUAL negative safety and operational incidents is a 
> strong testament to the equipment we have today.  Nevertheless, the 
> people charged with managing, protecting, and controlling the 
> technical and physical aspects of the grid (Wires, Transformers, 
> Protection Equipment, Generation, The Electricity Supply itself 
> stuff....) are loathe to look at a little 2KW, IEEE & UL Compliant 
> Inverter as anything other than a "Generator"....
>
> Generators, to them, have "moving parts", "rotating machinery", 
> "oscillations" (they don't admit that one)... They have very complex 
> protection control systems (so do our inverters!)... They require fuel

> to operate.  They are dispatchable and can come on or off line with a 
> flip of the switch.  They have Multi-MW capacity, day or night.  The 
> power is purchased and sold via an infrastructure of contracts, 
> credits and billing.  They know how to deal with them.  Well, not in 
> Ohio, but that's not what this is about.... ;-)
>
> To them, the little red, white or white and gray box hanging on the 
> wall is just the same, but different.... They can't flip the switch 
> and expect it to dispatch at full capacity within seconds, especially 
> at night.... They aren't the "wholesale buyer" who gets it first and 
> in turn, re-sells it at a profit, to the "customer".... But they want 
> to require all the same "standard utility protection devices", 
> including "visible-lockable disconnects" which we are all familiar 
> with, but also so many other things.  Things which are built into the 
> anti-islanding controls of the inverters, but aren't made by GE & 
> Westinghouse.... Brands they know.  These are chips and relays and 
> sensors, not large boxes or rooms full of boards with exotic 
> gas-filled contact enclosures....
>
> They don't need to be!  It's 240 volts and like 15 amps!  Not 121 KV 
> and 100 MW!  Herin lies the Devil.  They want it "their way" because 
> that's what they know.  Like most humans, change in one's embedded 
> thinking and perspective does not come easily, they just don't want to

> have to change their thinking or how they "do things".
>
> When it comes to things like siting a wind turbine, or PV for that 
> matter, the same paranoid overly-critical thought processes are in 
> place... Either in a neighborhood association, City/County Planning, 
> or other local group or agency.  Fear and control.  Fear over not 
> being in control.  Fear of the "unknown".  Fear of "what it will look 
> like from my backyard".... Fear of.... Well, the list goes on.
>
> Yes, California has finally attempted to address a portion of this 
> issue via legislation.  That is being tested right now, in various 
> areas around the state.  There are many "miles to go before we rest" 
> on this one... Again, change does not come easily and everybody has 
> their own interpretation of "the law", if they even know it exists.
>
> Witness medical marijuana, for example.  Not because it's related to 
> RE, because it's an example of varying interpretations.  The 
> difference with RE is that there are far more neighborhood 
> associations, municipalites, and neighbors in general than there are 
> County DA's and State and Fed AG's.  If the relative few can't achieve

> consensus on a highly publicized issue after this many years and court

> cases, how long and far will we have to go to to find consensus in our

> case?
>
> It is the existence of these types of obstacles, understanding their 
> depth, and having scars from fighting them that causes my "alarm" to 
> go off.... Oh, it also causes me to....
>
> Play the Lotto.  Play the Lotto.  PLAY THE LOTTTO!
>
> "Fight on, just be sure to know who you're fighting!"
>
> Matt Lafferty
> Universal Energies Institute
> mlafferty at universalenergies.com
> (916) 422-9772
> (916) 628-7694 Cell
> (916) 914-2247 Fax
> www.universalenergies.com
>
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