Utility Line Loggers - Was: balancing from 120 to 240 [RE-wrenches]

Fri Sep 5 15:26:08 PDT 2003

Wrenches:

EH has a reasonable point... If it seems like the Utility is out of
spec, request a "Power Quality Analysis".... A "free" service in all
utilities that I have dealt with....

Several realities to be aware of:

1.  The Utilities (In CA at least) are not required to divulge / share
the data with the customer.  They will issue their "report" which, in my
broad experience here, isn't always reflective of the "whole" truth and
tends to favor "their side".  The standard is that the "data" is
proprietary, FYI.

2.  You will want to be sure to stipulate, in a non-confrontational
manner of course, what parameters you want measured, the time between
readings (affects resolution), and the time period you want measured....
If you contact me off-list and describe your situation, I'll be happy to
share my recommendations for parameters and resolution.  Don't be afraid
to ask for an entire week!  Depending on their recorders, the time
increment and the number of parameters you request, they may or may not
be able to take a whole week without an intermediate download.  In my
experience, the actual guys (never met a gal doing it so far) that come
out and set it up are good and friendly people.  They are willing to
work with you if you don't come across as PO'd and/or a "know it all".

3.  Side by side recording of the line on two occassions... One recorder
owned by the U-Boys and one supplied by the Contractor (Yes, they were
leased and recently re-calibrated) have shown that the U-Boys "report"
significantly differs from the data collected by the Contractor.  The
U-Boys would not share the raw data in either case.  (Recently had a
blown-up inverter caused by line conditions.... U-Boys' report indicated
"nothing wrong".... Finger pointing without fact was the approach.  Many
side-notes here, but I'll keep it short.  The production meter literally
exploded, burned approx. a 2" hole in the cover of the Meter Can.  The
really cool "smoking gun" was that, when it happened, the Inverter was
back at the Manufacturer and the U-Boys couldn't blame the PV!  Thanks
to Xantrex for quality service, by the way.  Anyway, the "problem" we
had monitored mysteriously disappeared after that.... Hmmmm.... Nothing
wrong with that picture...  Of note is the fact that 6 SB's were on two
adjacent services supplied from the same feeder.  Private recording on
those services showed far less than favorable conditions, as well.  The
SB's didn't so much as blip.  Good job SMA!) 

4.  The U-Boys frequently run in Ansi B category voltage ranges... For
those of us who are not yet baptized in this area, Ansi B is supposedly
reserved for rare and unusual conditions.  It is farther "out of spec"
than Ansi A.  (Read this as "generally much higher than nominal
voltage".)  UL 1741 requires grid-tied Inverters to disconnect at this
point.  
The frequency of encountering this condition has greatly increased in CA
over the last two years.  Since the term "unusual" is not clearly
defined and there are no enforcement measures in place, I consider this
to be one of our "future frontier battles".  I am convinced that this is
due to the weakness of the grid and possibly one of those insidious
U-Boys' efforts to sabotage DG.  Wish I had one of those "Monica
Lewinsky Blue Dresses" as proof!

5.  U-Boys are loathe to admit anything out of spec due to the litigious
nature of our "society"....  I have seen a giant pile of TVs, Stereos
and VCRs sitting on the floor of a U-Boys office due to one admitted
"irregularity".... Sure wish I had a picture of that!

6.  The current ongoing investigation into the "2003 Blackout" suffered
by our Brothers to the East a month ago further  substantiates my
position.... It's really funny to watch the daily reports.... "We don't
have a clue" is a recurring theme!  

Thanks to our Inverter Manus for their efforts to support us in these
areas!

Play the Lotto!  Play the Lotto!  Play the Lotto!

Matt Lafferty
Universal Energies Institute
mlafferty at universalenergies.com
(916) 422-9772
(916) 628-7694 Cell
(916) 914-2247 Fax
www.universalenergies.com

-----Original Message-----
From: EH Roy [mailto:ehroy at solar-works.com] 
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: balancing from 120 to 240 [RE-wrenches]

Darryl,

Any inverter listed to UL 1741 will disconnect from the utility grid if
the grid is out of spec. If this is happening regularly, your customer
should request that the utility put line loggers at his/her service
entrance. This will show the utility that their power is out of spec and
they are required to fix that. We have had this problem (both grid
voltage too low and grid voltage too high) and the utilities have
installed line loggers and then corrected the voltage. It happens more
often than the utilities admit - often at the end of a transmission
line.

Not sure why you want to balance the power from an SMA inverter. If it
is a SB2500, it is already  sending power to both legs. If it is a
SB1800 it is only going to one leg but the grid will provide what is
needed on the other leg. I doubt the transformer is compatible. The SB
inverters are very impedance sensitive. How about it SMA?

E. H. Roy
Solar Works Inc.
64 Main Street
Montpelier, VT 05602
802 223-7804 x306
ehroy at solar-works.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Darryl Thayer [mailto:daryl_solar at yahoo.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 12:04 PM
To: re Wrenches
Subject: balancing from 120 to 240 [RE-wrenches]

Hello to all
Does anyone know can I use a Xantrex or Outback x240 transformer to
balance power from an SMA on to a load on a service panel?

My customer in the north woods is concerned with very
poor power quality and would like to have the SMA put
power on both sides of his service.

Speaking of poor power quaility will I have trouble
with utility voltage sag and the SMA?

As a note, last summer I had problems with a
Solar-UPS-grid-tie  Where the voltage sag caused the
SW to drop the line and take over load, so many times
that the system up set the homeowner.  Any comments is
this voltage sage problem occur for other people? help
on this also.

Daryl

__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
--^----------------------------------------------------------------
This email was sent to: michael_welch at sbcglobal.net

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9.bWljaGFl
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html
--^----------------------------------------------------------------