wireless internet dish/wind turbine tower [RE-wrenches]

Mon Feb 17 07:15:31 PST 2003

Thanks for the advice Robert, I will be discussing the matter further with
them this week. I DO have a Trace SW and a SolarBoost 50DL within 100' so
we'll see what happens! The aerodynamics of the thing will also be a factor
of course, luckily my "good" wind comes from a different direction then the
side the dish would be on, and extending the tower height is an option also.
Thanks to my site being 1600' above the valley below he indicated they just
need it up 40' or so. I'll keep you all posted.

Tom Simko

on 2/17/03 7:55 AM, Robert Warren at robertwarren at mail.com wrote:

> Tom,
> There is usually a 20 Khz or so radio frequency interference from the
> Trace and SolarBoost 50DL, but basically, it would be up to them to
> figure out how to shield their equipment.  Their stuff is likely 48 VDC,
> and as such they can easily filter the high frequency DC ripple on the
> battery side of things. It is very likely that if your inverter and
> controller are more than 100 meters away from your wind tower, there
> will be no interference other than a very weak RFI signal. You may as a
> last resort have to build a Faraday cage around the inverer, so be sure
> to cost this in when hitting them for access charges.
> Since it is reliabilty they are after, and this will be a new
> installation, I highly recommend you tell them you need a whole new set
> of batteries, so everyone knows where they stand in regards to battery
> size, type, and age. You can always sell off your old set to someone
> else who is on a budget.
> Matt is right about the wind blade interference. They have tried it
> here in the UK, and there was a problem of some sort, but I don't
> remember how it was resolved. I think there was some magic number
> regarding how far apart they were from each other. In terms of strength
> of towers, the wind tower is usually engineered far stronger than
> needed, but once they start putting up one dish or two, they keep
> multiplying like rabbits, and before you know it, there are 12 or more
> small dishes and gizmos up there.  So you have to make sure you still
> have access to your wind genny if you ever have to climb or lay down
> your tower. They are used to paying for new towers, this would be the
> better option. You still have the land and provide them with the power,
> and still get to do the work and charge them a monthly fee for access,
> power, and rental.  Or, another approach, which will win you a lot of
> repeat business, is to size a dedicated PV ssytem to their equipement,
> and have the PV on the side of the new tower. This option, though,
> really boils down to whether or not you are willing to give up good wind
> positioning compared to whatever new air turbulence you would have with
> a 2nd towere in close proximity.
> Give 'em Hell, but be nice and give 'em what they need.
> (my paraphrase of Patrick Swayze, in Roadhouse)
> Robert Warren
> robert.warren at solarcentury.co.uk
> 
> matthew tritt wrote:
>> Tom,
>> 
>> Wow-eeee. This sounds pretty interesting. But. One thing you might be
>> careful about is any frequency noise from the turbine blades themselves
>> (plus the alternator of course). I seem to recall that there can be some
>> weird feedback, if that's the correct word, between a parabolic receiver
>> and
>> rotating blades. This was a big problem with windfarm installations way
>> back
>> when, but perhaps your blade arc swings far enough above the dish.
>> 
>> Around here, central California, I've noticed the fruits of a suggestion
>> I
>> made early last year to a Cell phone tower installation company, in the
>> form
>> of conventional water pumping windmills sprouting up all over the place,
>> with no plumbing at all, just 4 inconspicuous antennae sticking out of
>> the
>> side of the towers! Kee=rap. I should have protected myself somehow.
>> Pretty
>> funny, considering you have to go through all kinds of pain to put a
>> wind
>> turbine in (not to methion a cell tower!) but not a pumper!
>> 
>> Is there no justice?
>> 
>> Matt T
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Tom Simko" <tom at skylinesolar.com>
>> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 8:14 PM
>> Subject: wireless internet dish/wind turbine tower [RE-wrenches]
>> 
>> 
>>> Fellow Wrenches,
>>> 
>>> Today I had a guy drive up to my off grid place and knock on the door.
>> The
>>> first thing out of his mouth was "I noticed your wind turbine tower",
>>> and
>> I
>>> thought it was, as  has happened many times in the past, someone that
>>> just
>>> had to know how it all (my off grid system) worked. I am always happy to
>>> show a neophyte around my place, you never know, it may result in a
>>> sale,
>> as
>>> has  happened in the past.
>>> 
>>> It turns out he's a rep for a wireless internet company, new to my rural
>>> area (SE Idaho), and my 50' 4 legged tower, currently occupied by a
>> Whisper
>>> H-80, very soon to be replaced by a AWP 3.6 (as soon as next week) fit
>>> the
>>> bill as to height and location for one of their network dishs. He went
>>> on
>> to
>>> say that if I gave permission, they'd come in and run a buried phone
>>> line
>> 
>>> from the road to the tower base, install an 18" mesh dish 5' below the
>> tower
>>> top (from the top of the 4 legged tower its another 6' of 2 1/2" pipe to
>> the
>>> base of the turbine itself, and as the dish would point west, and the
>>> prevailing winds are south in my area I'm not concerned
>>> aerodynamically),
>>> and all they need is an outlet to plug their repeater or whatever it is
>>> into.
>>> 
>>> At this I laughed and told the guy that I was totally off grid and while
>>> this may be possible it'd take some looking into, we'd need to get some
>>> power consumption figures etc, and I'd have to figure the load on my
>>> 1200
>>> watt PV/ 1000 watt wind system. He mentioned that it shouldn't be a
>> problem,
>>> the gear in his estimation drew little power. Then I pointed out IF the
>>> numbers worked the advantage to the company would be continuous power
>>> regardless of grid outages (pretty reliable around here, outages are
>>> brief
>>> and infrequent, darn it). He said that he'd get back to me tomorrow with
>>> exact numbers as to how much power would be required, its a given the
>>> need
>>> would be 24/7. I suggested checking with the company engineer's to see
>>> if
>> a
>>> low voltage DC repeater was available, and then pointed out the cost
>>> effectiveness and potentially greater reliability of a simple DC system,
>> and
>>> how a autonomous system, with its own PV panels/batteries, located on my
>>> property, using my tower, but separate from my home power system but
>> perhaps
>>> using it as a backup, would give a very great degree of reliabilty. He
>>> thought that was a great idea, but was puzzled as to who would know
>>> about
>>> all that solar stuff, he did not realize until I took him over to the
>>> shop
>>> and showed him my current project, (pun intended) a 960 watt PV off grid
>>> system that I had just finished putting together prior to delivery to
>>> the
>>> customers site, that I was in the business. So now it looks like not
>>> only
>>> will I lease my tower site to them, I'll sell the power equipment and
>>> install it. It gets better: I pointed out that since I have a trencher
>>> and
>> a
>>> boom truck (10 ton, 84' reach, very handy) I could handle ALL of the
>>> work.
>>> Sweeet.... They want to provide me with free internet access using their
>>> system (1,500,000 BPS) in exchange, but I think I can keep my old cable
>>> based provider, its adequate for my needs, costs me 35 a month including
>>> hosting my website, and shake them down for a monthly cash payment. He
>>> mentioned they may pay as much as 200 a month if the tech problems are
>>> few
>>> or minor and if I'd be willing to sign a contract.
>>> 
>>> Anyway, first question is: anyone know if they can expect any electronic
>>> interference from the Trace 4024SW, the SolarBoost 50DL, the soon to be
>>> installed AWP or any other component of my off grid system?  Second
>>> question: anyone else with a wind turbine tower been approached with an
>>> offer like this? If so, what'd they offer and how'd it work out?
>>> 
>>> Already spending the money,
>>> 
>>> Tom Simko
>>> Skyline Solar
>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> What will we do if there is another fuel shortage?
>>> Did you know that there is a pollution free, completely
> renewable fuel which you can use right now in your own car?
> Don't replace the engine, replace the fuel.
> Check out my website on making your own fuel:
> http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com
> robertwarren at mail.com
> 
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