Inverters for GT with Batteries [RE-wrenches]

Christopher Freitas - OutBack Power cfreitas at outbackpower.com
Tue Sep 9 21:07:05 PDT 2003


Marco wrote:
> Is there any reason to think that the grid-tied Outback--whenever it's 
> ready for that application--will not go through the bugs and burn-in 
> period that every other grid-tied inverter has gone through?  This 
> inverter does come from former Xantrex engineers who were closely 
> involved with the grid-tied SWs, right?  While I'm NOT on Beacon Power's 
> payroll, I do believe that the M5 will certainly be an improvement over 
> the MM3/5 and will benefit from the travails of the MMs under AEI.

Hey Marco - you should probably stick with discussing subjects you know 
more fully...  

Greg Thomas and Robin Gudgel where Xantrex employees for about two 
months - then I (their former boss) was forced to fire them.  I then 
went part time (I needed the medical coverage) and relieved myself from 
all management responsibilities. The problems Xantrex had with the SW 
and UL did not occur until well after I fired Greg/Robin and I had left. 
 None of us here at OutBack consider ourselves to have been Xantrex 
employees voluntarily.  

The reality is that the problems that the SW has with being a grid tied 
inverter are all the results of it being a 10 year old design that was 
never seriously updated (even the SW+ does not seem to be a major 
overhaul in my opinion). All of the SW's problems can be fixed - given 
enough time, money and the right people. We were never given the 
opportunity to really update the SW - but had to instead add patches and 
fixes to the original design.   

We at OutBack have benefitted tremendously from the experience we gained 
in designing, building and supporting the SW series for many years - not 
because we know how it works or how it did things - but because we know 
how NOT to do it again. Sure we still make mistakes - but we have to try 
a lot harder now.  

I can say we probably know more about doing grid tie inverters with 
energy storage than any other engineering group out there.  Alternative 
energy power inverters are what we do - period.  How many other 10 year 
old electronic products (like the SW series) are still built today and 
are considered competitive - especially in an emerging market like PV?  

I am sure the perfomance of the Beacon MM-5 will be better than the AEI 
version - heck, that wouldn't be hard to do at all... but if you think 
that beacon doesn't have a lot to learn about grid tie inverter design, 
then you are fooling yourself in my opinion.  

We here at OutBack could have come out with a grid tie inverter months 
or even a year ago - but we decided to hold off in order to get the 
other aspect of our design completed such as stacking multiple units 
(which the MM-5 never did) and working well with generators (which the 
MM-5 never did) and having a well developed networked remote display 
(which the MM-5 never had at all). 

We have released 12 versions of the OutBack FX series now - 12-24-48 
vdc, US & export outputs, sealed & vented models.  AEI/Beacon have just 
one. We have over 1500 OutBack inverters in the field now - how many did 
AEI build? 50? 100?  How many does Beacon have out there right now? 

Designing a grid tie inverter with energy storage is harder than you 
might think - but the grid tie capability is actually one of the easier 
parts - its doing the rest of it (like battery charging / transferring 
to inverter from grid / stacking / generator ...) that is hard. When you 
have a battery connected to an inverter and do something dumb - you have 
a much bigger potential for a problem than when you have a "whimpy" 
current limited PV array.     

So Marco - I would say that the record of the OutBack Engineers (don't 
call us "former xantrex" again please) stands on its own merit.  And so 
do our products for that matter.     

You are certainly welcome to not buy our inverters until you feel they 
are proven - just don't fool yourself into thinking that you shouldn't 
do the same with any other "new" inverters either.  

This makes me wonder why Xantrex and SMA were so eager to buy the first 
OutBack FX inverters and MPPTs controller available - using your logic, 
they should have waited!  

Christopher Freitas
OutBack Power Systems, Inc.
cfreitas at outbackpower.com  www.outbackpower.com
Tel 360 435 6030  Arlington WA USA

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