MM5 troubleshooting [RE-wrenches]

Wed Apr 9 22:11:50 PDT 2003

Hi Todd and wrenches:
    If you had refused the job, one less person would have become a net
energy producer, and those funds would still be going to PG&E.
    The customer wouldn't have installed solar if it required hours of her
time.  She wanted a simple install (not affecting her life), and she refused
to change out her existing hot water heater.  To address your three points:
FIRST:    The customer would only consider some efficiency retrofits, such
as CFLs.  The customer has all electric appliances, which she installed
after changing out her gas appliances.  She doesn't like gas.
SECOND:    The site was not feasible for solar thermal.  The solar electric
array was placed 300' away.
THIRD:    THEN WE TALKED SOLAR.
    I don't consider the hot water an essential load, but the customer did.
She didn't mind paying extra to get what she wanted.  So be it.
    Obviously, money wasn't an issue, or she wouldn't have said, "I'm not
shopping around, I don't want to take the time."  Would you really turn her
down.
Nick
Alternative Power Systems
www.alternativepowersystems.com
aps at sbcglobal.net
135 Colfax Ave.
Grass Valley, CA 95945
(530) 274-0588 phone
(530) 274-0589 fax
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Nicholas, APS" <APS at SBCGLOBAL.NET>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 9:17 PM
Subject: Re: MM5 troubleshooting [RE-wrenches]

> Hi Jeff:
>     In the MM5 system, the customer wanted a convenient solar system
> installation.  She refused to replace her electric hot water heater, even
> though the cost implications were made clear to her.  However, she
insisted
> that the hot water was backed-up by utility power.  She realized that the
> decision required an additional inverter, battery, and transformer.
Perhaps
> you would have refused installing the system.
>     This is not my house, and I don't have control over the decision.  The
> customer is a net energy producer with 3.84 kW of solar, even with the hot
> water heater.  She has a new electric hot water heater.  The batteries
only
> cycle when the utility grid is off.  Also, DC power is not at the same
> building.  Furthermore, she doesn't really want people inside.  As the
only
> daughter to the founder of Sunset Magazine, money was not her primary
reason
> for making the decision.
>     The original design for the system utilized two SW5548s at 240 VAC,
> which was a cleaner, more versatile  system.  Unfortunately, the SWs were
> just on the wall when the GTI/UL drama occurred.  We were forced to pull
the
> inverters.  After five painful months of Xantrex's false ship dates, she
> finally insisted on an option, and the MM5 was the only option.
> Unfortunately, installing the MM5's required splitting the battery into 2
> batteries.  Vanners RE series was re-called at the time too.
>     I am not saying that I haven't learned anything from that system.  I
> have stopped bidding battery based inverters in utility-inter-tied
> applications. Ever since then, I have focused on selling Sunny Boy Systems
> with Kohler Generators.  Most Recently, I have been bidding systems with
> FX-2000 inverters with Sunny Boys on the FX's sub-panel.  I have sold one
> with this design, but intend on testing it at my store before installing
the
> customers' system.
> Nick
> Alternative Power Systems
> www.alternativepowersystems.com
> aps at sbcglobal.net
> 135 Colfax Ave.
> Grass Valley, CA 95945
> (530) 274-0588 phone
> (530) 274-0589 fax
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Yago" <jryago at earthlink.net>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 1:35 PM
> Subject: RE: MM5 troubleshooting [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> >
> > "I think it is humorous that she chose to install a six thousand dollar
> > inverter dedicated to run a hot water heater, just so that she doesn't
> have
> > to change over to propane.  When the hot water heater gets older, we
> intend
> > to change it over to propane..."
> >
> > Although I would never use a pv system to power an electric hot water
> heater
> > due to the very high load, resulting short battery run time, and this is
> > much more expensive than any other way to heat water,  if you are
looking
> > for a temporary solution until the heater is replaced, why not:
> >
> > Replace 240 AC heating elements with DC elements
> > Install a load controller with adj. low voltage cut-off
> > Power hot water heater DC elements directly from battery bank (no AC
> > conversion losses).
> > Use inverter only to power "normal" lighting and appliance loads in
house.
> >
> > Just my 2 cents,
> >
> > Jeff Yago
> >
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