NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]

[Bill Brooks]

Jeff,

The reason electricians go through 5 years of apprenticeship training is
that they should know how to size wires. I tell my students in my PV
installation class that they HAVE to know how to size wires for voltage drop
and ampacity because designers routinely make mistakes or plan for designs
to be implemented one way and they get implemented another.

Take a look at the NABCEP task analysis--it gets into a lot of detail that
is design-related, without being engineering. This certification is not for
a screw driver turner, it is for the crew chief that has to know their
stuff.

Bill.

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffery Wolfe, Global Resource Options
[mailto:jeff at globalresourceoptions.com]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 6:05 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]


A certified installer should know how to connect the wires, but not
necessarily what size the wires should be. That's the difference between
design/engineering and installation. Never ask a licensed electrician to
design, it's beyond the training and skill level of most. Similarly, it's
pretty unusual to find an engineer who can competently install. (I can hear
the arrows coming already.) My view comes from 20 years in the construction
industry, outside of PV.

While I agree that there are too few real PV designers to make this a
separate certification as of now, let's not confuse that issue with the
general ability of installers to design.

Most of this list (I think) are competent designers, well experienced. But
as we get more of the "Dealers in a box" who install only the predesigned
systems by Astropower or Shell, I think we'll see more divergence between
installer and designer.

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Brooks [mailto:billb at endecon.com]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 7:27 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]



Brad,

All training requirements were removed from the NABCEP certification because
of a huge backlash from manufacturers and wrenches on the subject. Partly
because of union concerns and concerns over creating too much beauracracy.

The key is a tough exam. I'm willing to bet that very few will be able to
pass the test without a training class or detailed study of the review
guide. Everybody takes the test so everybody has to come up to speed.

I agree that designers should also be certified, but there are so few of
them that their is too little market now. A certified installer should be
able to tell the difference between a good design and a bad one.

Bill.


-----Original Message-----
From: Brad Bassett [mailto:bsbassett at earthlink.net]
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2002 1:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: SPAM: NABCEP & Training [RE-wrenches]


I think that training MUST be an intergral part of any certification
program, how else will installerrs learn how it should be done without
the years of experience that most wrenches have? If pv is going to
continue to expand as most of us hope, there will have to be many new
installers. It is these installers that we must get to, and train to do
installations in a manner that will serve the industry and the customer.

I see lots of effort by NABCEP to certify experienced installers, but I
do not see an effort to have a training program or to certify new
installers. How are new installers supposed to get the experience they
need? What kind of installtions are they going to do until they have
that experience? Without a training program and certification for
installers who have passed this training, this will be just another "old
boys club". The NACBEP may want to come up with a training program or we
may have to accept what the IBEW & NECA based NJATC comes up with, which
would of course be part of union training and apprenticeship.

I think that there should be a training course that is required, with
maybe some grandfathered in wrenches, but only if the test is very
rigorous. Perhaps there could be different certification levels, one for
newbies who have passed the test and one for experienced installers.
There could also be different certifications for residential and
commercial work, just as there is for electricians in many states.

I would also like to see a separate certification for PV designers. This
will increasingly be a different task than system installation, and can
be done wrong just as easily. Other industries often have this
certification separately.

Take a look at
http://www.radiantpanelassociation.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=185
for an example of a certification program in a sort of similar industry.


One other note is that in my experience with a past project consisting
of many potential installs in CA a few years ago, the IBEW and NECA were
very aggressive about trying to exclude non-union PV installers, and
their playing card was supplying the training for the installers. Unless
they have changed their tune, I would be wary if you don't want to be
union or excluded in some way.


Brad Bassett
bsbassett at earthlink.net

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