Diversion charge control [RE-wrenches]

Steve Willey, Backwoods Solar steve at backwoodssolar.com
Sat Sep 14 09:26:24 PDT 2002 

Jay, thanks for the comments. A while ago the C-40 would always shut down if
connected to a diversion load too large, even if the diversion amount is
well below controller amp rating.  Probably this was triggered by the sudden
shift from bulk to float where there would be at least momentary full-on
diversion to drop battery voltage.  I have been told they fixed that, but
still we set the load resistance to accept below 40 amps at max applied
voltage.
Steve Willey       steve at backwoodssolar.com
www.backwoodssolar.com
Backwoods Solar Electric Systems
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jay Peltz, Peltz Power" <jay at asis.com>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 7:43 AM
Subject: Re: Diversion charge control [RE-wrenches]


> Hi Steve,
>
> I've used a bunch of the C-40's as diversion load controllers and I like
them
> better than the enermaxer.
>
> The enermaxer only has one voltage, isn't conduit ready, can't auto eq,
and cost
> way more than the C-40's.
>
> I would put only one into auto EQ mode.  I find also that they will
compete a
> little with voltage, but if the bulk and float voltages are where you want
them,
> isn't it OK that once in a while they are out of sinc with each other?
>
> Personally if you are just burning the energy as heat, then, much easier
to use
> one CC mode for the PV, and then go with the other for diversion load.
>
> And don't you love the regs that state that you have to have load sized at
120%
> or something of the controllers rating.  Which means that the controller
can
> fail as its trying to power something to large!
>
> See ya,
>
> jay
>
> "Steve Willey, Backwoods Solar" wrote:
>
> > Well, no, not 4 control units. It will, just have 2 units anyway. Just
> > toying with one carrying 80% of load as series solar, the other carrying
> > balance as diversion to handle the small seasonal hydro and overflow
solar.
> > Not true back-up that way. Or could make two diversion controls and shut
off
> > auto-equalize and balance them with at least fairly close settings
> > Steve Willey       steve at backwoodssolar.com
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jeff Clearwater, Ecovillage Design" <clrwater at earthlink.net>
> > To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> > Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 2:26 PM
> > Subject: Re: Diversion charge control [RE-wrenches]
> >
> > > Hi Steve,
> > >
> > > Why not use an Enermaxer that's rated at 60 amps @ 48 Volts.  They do
> > > buzz (audibly and well as electrical noise) but they are robust and
> > > simple.  Equalization is manual is only drawback.  The backup unit
> > > you can just set at a little higher voltage and it won't interfere.
> > >
> > > That way you'ld have 2 units instead of 4! if you need parallel and
> > > redundancy at that amperage.
> > >
> > > Jeff Clearwater
> > > Ecovillage Design
> > >
> > >
> > > >I understand the code is requiring diversion type charge controls to
be
> > > >redundant as back-up for safety in case a dump load burns-out.I am
> > currently
> > > >specifying a system that will need TWO Trace C-40 controls because
> > combined
> > > >PV and seasonal hydro will total about 51 amps at 48 volts. (48 volts
> > means
> > > >C-60 cannot be used).
> > > >
> > > >While I have used C-40 in solar series control mode side by side for
two
> > 30
> > > >amp arrays, I have concerns bout their function as diversion.  In
series,
> > > >when one drops to float mode, the other can carry on just fine,
holding
> > > >until it also reaches requirements for going to float. The other
control
> > and
> > > >array may till hold battery voltage up at bulk  They can even
equalize
> > > >automatically at different times if their portion of the charge
source is
> > so
> > > >capable.
> > > >
> > > >However, set up as a diversion control, when one goes to float mode
it
> > will
> > > >probably pull the battery down so that the other never will go to
float.
> > > >Automatic equalization would never happen so long as one control
might be
> > > >pulling for float while the other tries to equalize.  Any experience
in
> > > >setting these up and how they work together or not? One option being
> > > >considered is one control as diversion and most of the solar
processed
> > > >series through the other. But part of the problem may remain where
the
> > > >diversion unit can pull everything toward float voltage, taking most
of
> > the
> > > >load most of the time.
> > > >
> > > >Steve Willey       steve at backwoodssolar.com
> > > >www.backwoodssolar.com
> > > >Backwoods Solar Electric Systems
> > > >Home electricity from sunlight for
> > > >locations with no utility lines.
> > > >Free instructional catalog.
> > > >----- Original Message -----
> > > >From: "Bill Brooks" <billb at endecon.com>
> > > >To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> > > >Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 9:53 AM
> > > >Subject: RE: SPAM: Data missing from SP140 cut sheet [RE-wrenches]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >>  William,
> > > >>
> > > >>  Here is the information you seek. I share your frustration. Many
> > companies
> > > >>  are poor about providing basic information like this.
> > > >>
> > > >>  Model Vmp Imp Voc Isc
> > > >>  SP140-24P 33 4.25 42.8 4.7
> > > >>  SP150-24P 33 4.4 43.4 4.8
> > > >>
> > > >>  Bill.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>  -----Original Message-----
> > > >>  From: William Miller [mailto:wrmiller at slonet.org]
> > > >>  Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 9:29 PM
> > > >>  To: solarinfo at si.shell.com
> > > >>  Cc: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > > >>  Subject: SPAM: Data missing from SP140 cut sheet [RE-wrenches]
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>  Dear Sirs or Ms:
> > > >>
> > > >>  I just downloaded the 2 page cut sheets for the Shell SP140 and
SP150
> > PV
> > > >>  modules.  There is at least one item of data glaringly absent:
The
> > rated
> > > >>  output current.  This was listed for all Siemens products but has
> > > >>  apparently been left out of the documents redone by Shell.  The
> > documents
> > > >>  in question are:  ShellSolarSP140_UKv5.pdf and
> > ShellSolarSP150_UKv5.pdf.
> > > >>  For an example of a correct document, please see the Siemens cut
sheet
> > for
> > > >>  the SP150.  It does contain the rated amperage.
> > > >>
> > > >>  I must emphasize that designers and field installers must have
access
> > to
> > > >>  published data in order to file complete design documents and
building
> > > >>  permit applications.  This is an important part of manufacturers
> > support.
> > > >>
> > > >>  Please correct the documents cited and e-mail them to me at this
> > e-mail
> > > >>  address at your earliest convenience.  Thank you in advance for
your
> > > >>  assistance.
> > > >>
> > > >>  Sincerely,
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > >>  William Miller
> > > >>
> > > >>  PS:  If I may, I'd also like to suggest that these documents
contain a
> > > >>  minimum of color for ease in printing in standard office color
> > printers.
> > > >>  We need to print multiple copies of these cut sheets and it really
> > > >consumes
> > > >>  a lot of color ink if the sheets are too busy with color.
> > > >  >
> > > >>  Thanks,
> > > >>
> > > >>  WM
> > > >>
> > > >>  __________________________________________________________________
> > > >>  William Miller
> > > >>  Miller Power and Communications
> > > >>  PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
> > > >>  Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 VMail: 805-546-4875
> > > >>  email: wrmiller at slonet.org
> > > >>  http://millerpowerandcomm.com
> > > >>  License No. C-10-773985
> > > >>  _____________________________________________________________
> > > >>  Compatibility:
> > > >>  Word processor: WP7
> > > >>  Spreadsheet: Quatro Pro 7
> > > >>  CAD: Microstation 95, DXF, Visio 4.1T
> > > >>  _____________________________________________________________
> > > >>  "Every decent man is ashamed of the government he lives under."
> > > >>                                      H. L. Mencken
> > > >>  __________________________________________________________________
> > > >>
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> > >
> > > --
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > > Jeff Clearwater
> > > Ecovillage Design Associates
> > > Home, Community and Village Scale Renewable Energy Systems
> > >
> > > 2525 Arapahoe Ave, Suite E4, #280
> > > Boulder, CO 80302
> > > 1-800-440-2523 PIN7071
> > > Fax:  720-528-7813
> > > clrwater at earthlink.net
> > > jeffc at ic.org
> > >
> > > Council Member - Ecovillage Network of the Americas -
> > http://www.ecovillage.org
> > > Founder:  Ecovillage Research, Development, and Demonstration Program:
> > > http://www.home.earthlink.net/~clrwater/RDD/rdd.html
> > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> > >
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> >
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