On grid w/battery [RE-wrenches]

[Joel Davidson]

Japanese and European PV guys say their customers don't want line-tie inverters
with batteries because they are not as concerned about power outages and poor
power quality as Americans. This sounds very nationalistic, but there must be a
reason why tens of thousands are buying non-battery PV when they can easily
afford a small battery bank. Conversely, I think Americans will buy non-battery
PV if it is marketed right.

Bill Brooks wrote:

> Joel,
>
> Battery-backed systems sell PV, not the other way around, often. I have been
> a proponent of the battery-backed system in the face of almost universal
> rejection in the grid-connected PV world because I believe it has very real
> "Independence" appeal. Take this from the system and you have taken a very
> real benefit from the table. Consumers are NOT morons as some may think.
> They vote with their checkbook and that is, simply stated, why we have well
> over 1,000 of these systems in the CEC program. It was originally thought
> that only 1-2% would be battery-backed (OOPS). I feel very lucky to have
> guessed correctly on this issue.
>
> Bill.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 4:45 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: On grid w/battery (was non wrenches) [RE-wrenches]
>
> It is interesting that so many people on the grid feel the need and are
> willing
> to pay extra for battery backup.
>
> We hardly ever use backup power. Since May 1998 when we installed our
> system, we
> have had a few short power outages less than one-half hour, two 1.25 hour
> scheduled blackouts and one long outage. The long outage was when a pole
> mounted
> transformer on the next block went out on Easter Sunday 2001 at 7pm . SCE
> decided it was not an emergency so they waited until the next morning to
> send a
> repair crew out to replace the transformer and restore power by 11am.
>
> The point is our battery bank has just sat there 35,000 hours keeping us off
> the
> PV array max power point and buying a float charge at night from the grid
> for
> less than 24 hours of relatively non-essential backup power.
>
> We presently produce 50% of our electricity. Since SCE increased their rates
> last June, I've been thinking about adding 1.6 kW DC of PV to our 2.2 kW DC
> system. Of course, I'd have to change inverters unless Xantrex figures out
> how
> to get the SW4048 to max power point track when on the grid and function as
> a
> UPS in stand-alone mode during grid outages.
>
> Bill Brooks wrote:
>
> > Joel,
> >
> > The CEC has some more firm numbers on the installations now. Of the more
> > than 2,500 installations in the CEC program, over 1,000 are SW systems.
> >
> > Bill.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, May 26, 2002 4:04 PM
> > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > Subject: Re: Non wrenches [RE-wrenches]
> >
> > 1) I will start a separate discussion group when postings from Japanese
> and
> > German
> > PV installers become overwhelming. Has anyone on this list ever talked or
> > written to
> > a Japanese or German PV installer?
> > 2) Many postings here are about code issues and system design that
> directly
> > relate
> > to grid-tie PV.
> > 3) Estimated U.S. grid-tie PV in 2001 is 10 MW with 80% in California. 15
> MW
> > of
> > grid-tie PV is projected for the entire U.S. for 2002.
> > 4) The percentage of California non-battery PV systems has increased, but
> I
> > don't
> > have specific numbers. Between the March 20, 1998 California PV rebate
> > program start
> > through May 29, 2001, 1,905 residential and commercial PV systems received
> > rebates.
> > 30% were owner-installed. 70% were contractor installed. I estimate 70% of
> > the
> > owner-installed systems and definitely more than 10% of the contractor
> > installed
> > systems have SW4024 or SW4048 inverters.
> >
> > "Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar" wrote:
> >
> > > It sounds great but...and this is just my .02¢.. assuming just a few %
> of
> > > the Japanese and German wrenches joined it would make this list really
> > big,
> > > I'd say too big.  Plus, I suspect that most of those systems are
> > > batteryless/grid tied.
> >
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