PV only contractors? Compiled [RE-wrenches]

[Joel Davidson]

73 divided by 25 weeks = 2.9/wk.
73 x 2 kW = 146 kW divided by 25 weeks = 5.8 kW/wk.
Keep up the great work!

mjnelson at cleartouch.com wrote:

> We live and work in Northern Ca. We started working full time in PV
> installs just before the start of the year (2002). We have installed 73
> systems since Jan 1,2002. Mostly in the range of 2 KW ( all Grid tie).
> Some  are a lot larger and some as small as 1.38KW. We have seven
> employees, not including my partner and I. We are working fulltime as a
> PV only contractor. As of the first of this year we have installed
> approx. 165 kw of PV.
>
> We have grown in experience as an installer more than we could have
> imagined. The experience and knowledge that we have gained since Jan 1
> of this year is worth more than can be expressed in written terms. It
> has been a privilege to gain this much information and data base
> information to help build this industry.
>
> It is obvious to all, that to work at this level of installations there
> must be key protocol in place. There is! And it is working. We make our
> money as installers. Although we are dealers, we not make our money
> selling the product. Doesn't make sense, does it. But its working after
> some growing pains and learning curves.
>
> Regards, See ya on the next rotation of the Sun!
>
> Matthew J. Nelson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net]
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:23 PM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: PV only contractors? Compiled [RE-wrenches]
>
> This email is long, but I think it is more interesting than the stuff in
> the newspapers and on TV.
>
> On June 5, 2002, I was asked how many full-time contractors in the U.S.
> install just PV. No occasional PV contractors. No contractors that do
> conventional electrical work and some PV work. No mail-order or internet
> parts houses. Just real, full-time contractors that only install PV. I
> really don't know, but I'm guessing that there are less than 100
> independent PV installers in California who work full time in PV. So I
> asked Wrenches to post how many full-time PV contractors you think are
> in the U.S. Here are your responses.
>
> Don Loweburg, Offline, Northfork, CA "count me as one of the full
> timers."
>
> Jeff Wolfe, Global Resources, Strafford, VT "about 15 people in Vermont
> who make a full time living by selling and installing PV. That's being
> conservative. (i.e. I'm not counting our firm as 5, but instead as 2.
> That's about what we have doing the field material ordering, final
> design and installation.) Counted in a more loose fashion, the number
> could be 25-30. Of course, not all our work is in VT, or the US for that
> matter."
>
> Kirk Herander, Vermont Solar Engineering, Burlington , VT "To comment on
> Jeff W.'s remarks, there are roughly 15 - 20 owners & employees at small
> VT RE dealer / installer businesses making a full-time living at
> combined renewables, not just PV. Please note this is 15-20 are people,
> not # of businesses. Full-time businesses are roughly 8, and I would say
> 3 or 4 tops are at or above $300k in combined yearly revenues."
>
> Travis Creswell, Ozark Energy Services, Neosho, MO "I'm not full time
> solar PV although I sure got into it with the goal of full time.
> Currently my commercial and industrial lighting services are at least
> 70% of my annual business and growing.  My best estimate for my
> business' foreseeable future is less and less solar, partly because the
> lighting services are doing so good but mainly because it appears to be
> impossible to make a living doing solar in my area. As far as I know
> there are NO full time contractors doing PV only in the four states of
> MO, AR, KS and OK.  Of course, I'm defining contractors as someone who
> has some form of license and insurance and really is in business. I
> occasionally hear of folks with no business name who are dabbling with
> it. If your guess is less than 100 in California I'd would say the rest
> of the country might only add up to another 200."
>
> Bill Roush, Solar Electric Systems of Kansas City, Inc., Lenexa, KS "If,
> by contractor, you mean installing in homes and commercial buildings,
> there are none in MO, KS, NE, OK, AR." (Joel - I asked Bill if he is
> doing installations and he replied) "Sure, I'm doing them. But I mostly
> sell to parks and other folks in remote locations. I'd starve if I had
> to depend on PV home sales in the Midwest. It is just not here. With
> only one or two local install jobs a year, I use a local electrician.
> Other 'home' systems in this area are 'hobbyists' who do it themselves.
> The Rural Electric Co-ops are everywhere here so there is almost no
> 'off-grid' market."
>
> Darrin Primm, Hutton Communications, Inc, Lawrenceville, GA "NC, SC, VA,
> TN, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA AND KY. There are six companies I am aware of in
> the above listed states that derive most of their revenue from PV and
> wind.  A bunch of solar thermal folks in Florida do PV but most of their
> income is solar thermal. I must put the company for which I work in the
> "PV as a small part of our total revenue" category too.  PV and related
> products has run no more than 12% of total revenue since we started in
> 1979.  About 90% of that is stand alone industrial systems for
> telecommunications, gas & oil and wireless/remote data and commercial
> backup power.  The reason I chose to go to work for a distributor was
> the slim pickings available to a wrench in these parts."
>
> Jim Hartley, Homestead Specialties, St. Charles, IL "I would have said a
> max 250 bona fide, fully credentialed, full-timer installation firms in
> the US states.  There are none in Illinois so far as I know, including
> myself.  There is one fellow in Chicago who may make a full time living
> at this sort of thing but a large part of his work is actually occurring
> in Latin America, not around here.  That's pretty sad when you think
> about it. As for Wisconsin, I can't say all that much but there are more
> established dealers/installers up there than there have ever been in
> Illinois.  I suspect some of these folks are making a go of things but
> only they will be able to say. Someone once asked me why don't all you
> small companies everywhere just start one large national company so you
> have some real clout and all that experience under one roof.  It sounded
> interesting but that's not everybody's dream.  But I got me to thinking
> at least.  Think of the purchasing power that would represent and all
> the accumulated expertise getting put to work everywhere."
>
> William Miller, SLO Communications, Santa Margarita, CA "I am currently
> working 95% in the PV industry and have been for about 2 years.  I don't
> recommend 100% in any trade.  PV is a fickle industry.  One change in
> the rebate or e-net legislation and I'm home watching Oprah. That is
> unless I have other trades to pursue.  I learned a long time ago that
> diversity is the key to staying ahead of the bill collectors."
>
> John Mottl, Rainshadow Solar Electric Inc., Orcas, WA "I have had a full
> time PV business since 1988 in Washington state. We employee three
> people. I would estimate that there are 26 people working on installing
> PV systems in Washington State on a regular basis. Just three years ago
> I would say this number was 12. The industry is expanding rapidly in
> WA."
>
> Jay Peltz, Peltz Power, Redway, CA counts himself "99.9% off grid."
>
> Graham Owen, Go Solar, North Hollywood, CA "How about "solar only"
> contractors.  I have been installing and servicing solar equipment full
> time for over 20 years.  Now that I am looking at homes outside of LADWP
> territory it is obvious that solar systems can be installed as money
> saving devises if sized to allow for peak shaving and keeping homeowners
> at baseline rates. Some of these homes have electric water heaters,
> which are the biggest year round load and air conditioning as biggest
> summer time load.  A professionally installed solar domestic hot water
> heating system may be able to provide more savings than PV at a fraction
> of the cost. I like having different solar solution options available
> for each individual homeowner. I don't have the mindset that
> electricians are elitist and plumbers are dirty. I will install whatever
> type of solar energy system makes the most sense for my customer."
>
> Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services, Mt. Shasta, CA "Up here I am part
> time PV, and the rest regular rope pulling for new construction,
> additions and remodels. I usually do from 4 to 8 systems a year. Keeps
> me plenty busy and very happy."
>
> Patrick A. Redgate, AMECO, Long Beach, CA "AMECO has been actively
> engaged in solar and only solar since its inception in 1974. Long Beach
> based, we had at one time three satellite offices and twenty-seven
> employees (six part time) in 1985.   We have installed solar heating
> systems for water, pools, spas, space heating (air collectors included),
> and most recently, PV.  In the eighties we were happy to install stand
> alone PV systems, mostly simple battery and battery-less DC direct
> systems, but found the business too distracting (for every fifty
> inquiries about PV, we would make 1/2 sale).  So for years we have just
> been referring calls to Real Goods (and before that Wm Lamb).  I think
> so much of this business in the past was an outgrowth of the need to
> power gro-lights, and accounts for the over representation of PV'ers in
> No. California (as well as in other remote areas). In terms of time
> spent, about ninety percent of our time is thermal. In terms of gross
> revenue, probably about twenty percent is PV. In terms of profit,
> probably about 95% is thermal. We currently have five people and do
> solar ONLY."
>
> Steve Willey, Backwoods Solar, Sandpoint, ID "Probably 15 or so in
> Idaho."
>
> Chris Worcester, Solar Wind Works, Truckee, CA "I'm full time with PV &
> Wind installs & sales. I'd say 80% PV to 20% wind."
>
> Jeff Yago, Dunimis Technology Inc., Manakin Sabot, VA "located near
> Richmond Virginia is a 100% full time solar pv design and installation
> business, although I also co-own an energy engineering business - which
> may put us in your less than 100% solar bracket. Since Virginia includes
> the Virginia Beach/Newport news area with several long time solar pool
> and DHW contractors doing some pv, several isolated university type
> towns with at least one solar/fireplace/energy saving product store in
> each, and the Washington DC area (which is in a different world all to
> itself!!), I only know about 8 to 10 advertised solar contractors in
> Virginia and I am almost positive that none are 100% full time pv. s. We
> do have the fairly new PB Solorex amorphous module plant that located
> near Williamsburg Virginia (as a result of a state solar manufacturer
> tax break to attract a them), but I think most of their product is
> shipped out of state. Also, even though Virginia passed a net metering
> law about two years ago, Virginia's residential electric rates are still
> in the 7 to 8 cent/kwh range (except maybe around D.C.), so I am not
> seeing the economics here yet for grid tied systems which may be holding
> down any increase in installers. The Washington DC area of Virginia
> overlaps the nearby Baltimore Maryland marketing area which has higher
> utility rates and a higher percentage of solar pv dealers and
> installers."
>
> Lee Tavenner, Solar Plexus, Missoula, MT "strictly RE. We have a small
> retail store/ office. We carry on all our consultation and design and
> ordering etc. from there. We are in the over $300,000 catagory. Three
> partners: two installers and one office/store person, occasional field
> helper. This business supports one couple and a young family of four. I
> would say about 70% of our business is solar, about 25% is hydro and
> about 5% is wind. I'm not sure, but I doubt there are any other
> full-time RE installers in Montana over $300,000. I would guess that the
> numbers nationally are low except in areas with the bydowns and other
> big incentives."
>
> Alan Sindelar, Positive Energy, Santa Fe, NM "Ben Luce, president of
> NMSEA, and I together guesstimated 7 in NM. That # could vary
> considerably, depending on how terms are defined. 3-4 times that for
> peripherals, I'd say. We are FT PV contractors, unless we're
> disqualified for about 2% solar thermal. We gross about $4-500K/yr, and
> employ 4 FT and 1 PT."
>
> Dan Whigham, SC Solar, Lancaster, SC "We work in NC, SC, GA, and Latin
> America."
>
> Antony Tersol, Applied Solar Energy, Pacific Grove, CA "In Monterey,
> Calif. area, there are two that we know of: Solex and Applied Solar
> Energy."
>
> Joel Davidson again. In 1990, when I was with Hoxan, I estimated about
> 20 U.S. "resellers" of all types (distributors, dealers, installers,
> mail-order, but not including manufacturers) doing at least $500k in PV
> revenues annually and about 100 doing less than $500k. Lots of one-man
> operations, some mom-and-pops and a few larger companies like Atlantic
> Solar, Sunelco, Solar Depot, Real Goods, Solar Electric Specialties,
> Photron, Wm. Lamb, Photocomm, Integrated Power Corporation, etc. Some of
> the bigger companies did installation work. Many of the smaller
> companies only did a few installations a year.
>
> You may ask, "So what?" Those of us who work in PV over 3000 hours a
> year sometimes wonder if we are "a small circle of friends" to quote
> Phil Ochs or if there are too damn many many of us going after the same
> customers. Is the market half empty or half full? When 3 guys quote your
> customer, it can seem pretty crowded. But the truth is if we want more
> solar in the world, then there are not enough of people who get up in
> the morning and do PV until they are too tired to think and then get up
> the next day just do it all over again.
>
> Have a happy 4th of July holiday!
>
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