PV only contractors? Compiled [RE-wrenches]

mjnelson at cleartouch.com mjnelson at cleartouch.com
Sat Jun 29 10:13:50 PDT 2002


We live and work in Northern Ca. We started working full time in PV
installs just before the start of the year (2002). We have installed 73
systems since Jan 1,2002. Mostly in the range of 2 KW ( all Grid tie).
Some  are a lot larger and some as small as 1.38KW. We have seven
employees, not including my partner and I. We are working fulltime as a
PV only contractor. As of the first of this year we have installed
approx. 165 kw of PV. 

We have grown in experience as an installer more than we could have
imagined. The experience and knowledge that we have gained since Jan 1
of this year is worth more than can be expressed in written terms. It
has been a privilege to gain this much information and data base
information to help build this industry. 

It is obvious to all, that to work at this level of installations there
must be key protocol in place. There is! And it is working. We make our
money as installers. Although we are dealers, we not make our money
selling the product. Doesn't make sense, does it. But its working after
some growing pains and learning curves.

Regards, See ya on the next rotation of the Sun!

Matthew J. Nelson


-----Original Message-----
From: Joel Davidson [mailto:joeldavidson at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2002 10:23 PM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: PV only contractors? Compiled [RE-wrenches]


This email is long, but I think it is more interesting than the stuff in
the newspapers and on TV.

On June 5, 2002, I was asked how many full-time contractors in the U.S.
install just PV. No occasional PV contractors. No contractors that do
conventional electrical work and some PV work. No mail-order or internet
parts houses. Just real, full-time contractors that only install PV. I
really don't know, but I'm guessing that there are less than 100
independent PV installers in California who work full time in PV. So I
asked Wrenches to post how many full-time PV contractors you think are
in the U.S. Here are your responses.

Don Loweburg, Offline, Northfork, CA "count me as one of the full
timers."

Jeff Wolfe, Global Resources, Strafford, VT "about 15 people in Vermont
who make a full time living by selling and installing PV. That's being
conservative. (i.e. I'm not counting our firm as 5, but instead as 2.
That's about what we have doing the field material ordering, final
design and installation.) Counted in a more loose fashion, the number
could be 25-30. Of course, not all our work is in VT, or the US for that
matter."

Kirk Herander, Vermont Solar Engineering, Burlington , VT "To comment on
Jeff W.'s remarks, there are roughly 15 - 20 owners & employees at small
VT RE dealer / installer businesses making a full-time living at
combined renewables, not just PV. Please note this is 15-20 are people,
not # of businesses. Full-time businesses are roughly 8, and I would say
3 or 4 tops are at or above $300k in combined yearly revenues."

Travis Creswell, Ozark Energy Services, Neosho, MO "I'm not full time
solar PV although I sure got into it with the goal of full time.
Currently my commercial and industrial lighting services are at least
70% of my annual business and growing.  My best estimate for my
business' foreseeable future is less and less solar, partly because the
lighting services are doing so good but mainly because it appears to be
impossible to make a living doing solar in my area. As far as I know
there are NO full time contractors doing PV only in the four states of
MO, AR, KS and OK.  Of course, I'm defining contractors as someone who
has some form of license and insurance and really is in business. I
occasionally hear of folks with no business name who are dabbling with
it. If your guess is less than 100 in California I'd would say the rest
of the country might only add up to another 200."

Bill Roush, Solar Electric Systems of Kansas City, Inc., Lenexa, KS "If,
by contractor, you mean installing in homes and commercial buildings,
there are none in MO, KS, NE, OK, AR." (Joel - I asked Bill if he is
doing installations and he replied) "Sure, I'm doing them. But I mostly
sell to parks and other folks in remote locations. I'd starve if I had
to depend on PV home sales in the Midwest. It is just not here. With
only one or two local install jobs a year, I use a local electrician.
Other 'home' systems in this area are 'hobbyists' who do it themselves.
The Rural Electric Co-ops are everywhere here so there is almost no
'off-grid' market."

Darrin Primm, Hutton Communications, Inc, Lawrenceville, GA "NC, SC, VA,
TN, GA, FL, AL, MS, LA AND KY. There are six companies I am aware of in
the above listed states that derive most of their revenue from PV and
wind.  A bunch of solar thermal folks in Florida do PV but most of their
income is solar thermal. I must put the company for which I work in the
"PV as a small part of our total revenue" category too.  PV and related
products has run no more than 12% of total revenue since we started in
1979.  About 90% of that is stand alone industrial systems for
telecommunications, gas & oil and wireless/remote data and commercial
backup power.  The reason I chose to go to work for a distributor was
the slim pickings available to a wrench in these parts."

Jim Hartley, Homestead Specialties, St. Charles, IL "I would have said a
max 250 bona fide, fully credentialed, full-timer installation firms in
the US states.  There are none in Illinois so far as I know, including
myself.  There is one fellow in Chicago who may make a full time living
at this sort of thing but a large part of his work is actually occurring
in Latin America, not around here.  That's pretty sad when you think
about it. As for Wisconsin, I can't say all that much but there are more
established dealers/installers up there than there have ever been in
Illinois.  I suspect some of these folks are making a go of things but
only they will be able to say. Someone once asked me why don't all you
small companies everywhere just start one large national company so you
have some real clout and all that experience under one roof.  It sounded
interesting but that's not everybody's dream.  But I got me to thinking
at least.  Think of the purchasing power that would represent and all
the accumulated expertise getting put to work everywhere."

William Miller, SLO Communications, Santa Margarita, CA "I am currently
working 95% in the PV industry and have been for about 2 years.  I don't
recommend 100% in any trade.  PV is a fickle industry.  One change in
the rebate or e-net legislation and I'm home watching Oprah. That is
unless I have other trades to pursue.  I learned a long time ago that
diversity is the key to staying ahead of the bill collectors."

John Mottl, Rainshadow Solar Electric Inc., Orcas, WA "I have had a full
time PV business since 1988 in Washington state. We employee three
people. I would estimate that there are 26 people working on installing
PV systems in Washington State on a regular basis. Just three years ago
I would say this number was 12. The industry is expanding rapidly in
WA."

Jay Peltz, Peltz Power, Redway, CA counts himself "99.9% off grid."

Graham Owen, Go Solar, North Hollywood, CA "How about "solar only"
contractors.  I have been installing and servicing solar equipment full
time for over 20 years.  Now that I am looking at homes outside of LADWP
territory it is obvious that solar systems can be installed as money
saving devises if sized to allow for peak shaving and keeping homeowners
at baseline rates. Some of these homes have electric water heaters,
which are the biggest year round load and air conditioning as biggest
summer time load.  A professionally installed solar domestic hot water
heating system may be able to provide more savings than PV at a fraction
of the cost. I like having different solar solution options available
for each individual homeowner. I don't have the mindset that
electricians are elitist and plumbers are dirty. I will install whatever
type of solar energy system makes the most sense for my customer."

Todd Cory, Mt. Shasta Energy Services, Mt. Shasta, CA "Up here I am part
time PV, and the rest regular rope pulling for new construction,
additions and remodels. I usually do from 4 to 8 systems a year. Keeps
me plenty busy and very happy."

Patrick A. Redgate, AMECO, Long Beach, CA "AMECO has been actively
engaged in solar and only solar since its inception in 1974. Long Beach
based, we had at one time three satellite offices and twenty-seven
employees (six part time) in 1985.   We have installed solar heating
systems for water, pools, spas, space heating (air collectors included),
and most recently, PV.  In the eighties we were happy to install stand
alone PV systems, mostly simple battery and battery-less DC direct
systems, but found the business too distracting (for every fifty
inquiries about PV, we would make 1/2 sale).  So for years we have just
been referring calls to Real Goods (and before that Wm Lamb).  I think
so much of this business in the past was an outgrowth of the need to
power gro-lights, and accounts for the over representation of PV'ers in
No. California (as well as in other remote areas). In terms of time
spent, about ninety percent of our time is thermal. In terms of gross
revenue, probably about twenty percent is PV. In terms of profit,
probably about 95% is thermal. We currently have five people and do
solar ONLY."

Steve Willey, Backwoods Solar, Sandpoint, ID "Probably 15 or so in
Idaho."

Chris Worcester, Solar Wind Works, Truckee, CA "I'm full time with PV &
Wind installs & sales. I'd say 80% PV to 20% wind."

Jeff Yago, Dunimis Technology Inc., Manakin Sabot, VA "located near
Richmond Virginia is a 100% full time solar pv design and installation
business, although I also co-own an energy engineering business - which
may put us in your less than 100% solar bracket. Since Virginia includes
the Virginia Beach/Newport news area with several long time solar pool
and DHW contractors doing some pv, several isolated university type
towns with at least one solar/fireplace/energy saving product store in
each, and the Washington DC area (which is in a different world all to
itself!!), I only know about 8 to 10 advertised solar contractors in
Virginia and I am almost positive that none are 100% full time pv. s. We
do have the fairly new PB Solorex amorphous module plant that located
near Williamsburg Virginia (as a result of a state solar manufacturer
tax break to attract a them), but I think most of their product is
shipped out of state. Also, even though Virginia passed a net metering
law about two years ago, Virginia's residential electric rates are still
in the 7 to 8 cent/kwh range (except maybe around D.C.), so I am not
seeing the economics here yet for grid tied systems which may be holding
down any increase in installers. The Washington DC area of Virginia
overlaps the nearby Baltimore Maryland marketing area which has higher
utility rates and a higher percentage of solar pv dealers and
installers."

Lee Tavenner, Solar Plexus, Missoula, MT "strictly RE. We have a small
retail store/ office. We carry on all our consultation and design and
ordering etc. from there. We are in the over $300,000 catagory. Three
partners: two installers and one office/store person, occasional field
helper. This business supports one couple and a young family of four. I
would say about 70% of our business is solar, about 25% is hydro and
about 5% is wind. I'm not sure, but I doubt there are any other
full-time RE installers in Montana over $300,000. I would guess that the
numbers nationally are low except in areas with the bydowns and other
big incentives."

Alan Sindelar, Positive Energy, Santa Fe, NM "Ben Luce, president of
NMSEA, and I together guesstimated 7 in NM. That # could vary
considerably, depending on how terms are defined. 3-4 times that for
peripherals, I'd say. We are FT PV contractors, unless we're
disqualified for about 2% solar thermal. We gross about $4-500K/yr, and
employ 4 FT and 1 PT."

Dan Whigham, SC Solar, Lancaster, SC "We work in NC, SC, GA, and Latin
America."

Antony Tersol, Applied Solar Energy, Pacific Grove, CA "In Monterey,
Calif. area, there are two that we know of: Solex and Applied Solar
Energy."

Joel Davidson again. In 1990, when I was with Hoxan, I estimated about
20 U.S. "resellers" of all types (distributors, dealers, installers,
mail-order, but not including manufacturers) doing at least $500k in PV
revenues annually and about 100 doing less than $500k. Lots of one-man
operations, some mom-and-pops and a few larger companies like Atlantic
Solar, Sunelco, Solar Depot, Real Goods, Solar Electric Specialties,
Photron, Wm. Lamb, Photocomm, Integrated Power Corporation, etc. Some of
the bigger companies did installation work. Many of the smaller
companies only did a few installations a year.

You may ask, "So what?" Those of us who work in PV over 3000 hours a
year sometimes wonder if we are "a small circle of friends" to quote
Phil Ochs or if there are too damn many many of us going after the same
customers. Is the market half empty or half full? When 3 guys quote your
customer, it can seem pretty crowded. But the truth is if we want more
solar in the world, then there are not enough of people who get up in
the morning and do PV until they are too tired to think and then get up
the next day just do it all over again.

Have a happy 4th of July holiday!

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