Safety at 600v [RE-wrenches]

Bob-O Schultze, Electron Connection econnect at snowcrest.net
Thu May 23 14:15:51 PDT 2002


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Doug,
Goodness Gracious!
I thought that Phil took pains NOT to identify the "big West Coast 
mail order solar catalog" who apparently employs under trained and/or 
unqualified salesmen/technical staff. Thank you for clearing up just 
who the heck he was speaking about.
The fact that none of  your clients have died (that we know of) 
speaks more to the largely inherent safety factors of PVs, inverters, 
and mostly low voltage systems. Your outfit is well known for selling 
whatever sells best regardless of whether the product is listed or 
not, is suitable or not. You enjoy a great advantage that way. I hold 
electrical contractor licenses in two states that require bonding and 
insurance in addition to the license. If I sell/install an unlisted 
or unsuitable product in either one, I'm screwed-and rightly so. 
That, my friend, is the difference between a Wrench and a salesman.
In case you haven't noticed, this is a WRENCH list. You come here to 
glean our bloody knuckled knowledge and then you "diss" us?
BLOW IT OUT YOUR BUTT!
How's that for specious personation?
Michael, I vote for this non-Wrench person to be gone. Anyone else?
Bob-O

>As a technical staff member of a big West Coast mail order solar catalog, I
>too share the concern for the safety of every one of my clients. This
>includes the discussion of the dangers of high voltage DC and the
>recommendation that systems be installed by qualified humans.
>
>We have successfully advised literally thousands of clients who have
>installed energy systems of all sizes all over the world, and a lot of these
>were done by people who might be considered "unqualified", and yet the
>overwhelming success of these people may prove that the necessity and value
>of "qualified installers" is perhaps (dare I say) over-rated. Fortunately,
>the State of California gives the benefit of the doubt to the
>owner-installer, as I would hope others would.
>
>Further, I would hope that most of us have better things to do than to
>partake of specious personation.
>
>Best regards,
>
>Douglas B. Bath,
>Senior Technical Advisor
>Gaiam- Real Goods & Jade Mountain
>800-919-2400 x6903 voice
>303-222-8700 fax
>http://www.realgoods.com
>Building a Sustainable World Since 1978
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Phil Undercuffler, Positive Energy
>[mailto:phil at positiveenergysolar.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 4:10 PM
>To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>Subject: Re: Safety at 600v [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bill Brooks" <billb at endecon.com>
>
>>  I know most of the wrenches design their own systems, but how do people
>feel
>>  about the newbees designing systems? How about wrenches with 600 Volts--we
>>  talked about this over a year ago on the list and there was a lot of
>>  well-deserved apprehension--I'm still worried.
>
>
>Forget about wrenches--how about Joe Handyman?  Last month I got the latest
>catalog from the big West coast mail order solar catalog company that will
>remain nameless.  Prominently featured on the back page was Sunnyboy solar
>packages, both small and large.  Just for kicks n grins, I called up & made
>dumb (insert easy pot-shot here).  The helpful person on the other end of
>the line assured me that anyone with handyman skills could install the
>entire system!  He was still willing to take my credit card number after I
>balked at pulling a permit or hiring an electrician, or even about notifying
>my utility company, (although he mentioned that they wouldn't like that).
>To his credit, he did suggest that I hire someone to look at my work,
>although I'm sure that doesn't really meet the intent of the law.  I wiggled
>off the hook by protesting "what do you mean it doesn't work on 12 volts?
>Gee, I don't know if I feel safe working at linesman voltages!"
>
>To take this a little further, I was tapped to lead a training for my fire
>department regarding solar power systems.  A common part of fighting a
>structure fire is cutting a large hole in the roof directly over the fire.
>The thought of being on the unhappy end of an 18" gas-powered roof saw that
>accidentally cuts through an array conductor operating at 600VDC made even
>the newest recruit blanche.  I know that we can tarp the array and be safe,
>I THINK that smashing out a couple of modules will break the string and make
>it safe, but I can also see the day when firefighters see the array on the
>roof, the red box on the wall, put two and two together and unless there is
>someone trapped inside they stand back and protect the neighbor's house.
>
>Don't get me wrong, I LIKE the Sunnyboy.  I can't wait to get my hands on a
>Sunny Island.  I think SMA has a great product line, support, and design
>philosophy.  I'm just really concerned about what happens when things don't
>go right; in fact what happens when things go horribly wrong.

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