Utility required disconnect [RE-wrenches]

Wed May 8 18:20:13 PDT 2002

Wrenches:

There is a zero cost visible blade disconnect on every home.
It is called the kWH meter and utilities all over the country routinely
use it as a lock out means of disconnect for customers who do not pay
their bills.
Firemen use it too during fires except they use an axe to remove it
(Thanks Chris F. for this reference).

The trade off here is that your whole house must be shut down if they
lock out your PV system.
Other than the whole SW fiasco is anyone aware of a disconnect that was
ever shut off by the utility ?
Of those (if any) how many were shut off at a time other than when the
utility was working on the lines so the power was off anyway ?

Seems like a very reasonable idea to accept the meter as the visible
means of disconnect for the PV system.
Clearly the utilities already view it as such so why can't we use it
that way too ?
Yes, there is some risk that the utility may need to shut off your
inverter while the power is on.
This would require them to shut down your whole house instead of just
your PV system.
At least this way the customer's can choose to spend the extra bucks for
the separate disconnect if they can see a benefit it.

Best Regards,

John Berdner

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Brooks [mailto:billbrooks7 at earthlink.net] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:17 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]

David,

No one has suggested not to fight back with utilities. The issue is to
choose the battles and be fully informed with your argument before going
on the offensive. These utilities have a lot of technical firepower, but
a solid technical argument can be successful. If you pick the wrong
fight, it just confirms their suspicions. If you wear them down with
good technical arguments, you may be surprised at the results.
Credibility is everything with utility engineers. That is your greatest
weapon as a wrench.

Bill.

-----Original Message-----
From: David Blittersdorf [mailto:davidb at nrgsystems.com]
Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 6:58 AM
To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
Subject: RE: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]

I have a net metered wind/PV home here in Vermont. My disconnect is a 3R
box with a 100 amp, 240 circuit breaker under the cover next to my
meter. I have a plastic tie wrap plainly looped thru the lock hole on my
disconnect. This is my visual indicator to see if the utility ever
pulled the switch. In 3 years it has never been used and my utility
never wanted to look at my installation.

BTW: Jeff Wolfe is being yanked around here in VT by CVPS and we will
fight them. By not fighting back, they win. The utilities try to wear
you down but we are pretty active here in our little state and luckly
the utilities are tiny compared to the ones many of you go up against.

Regards,

David Blittersdorf

On 8 May 2002 at 6:12, jberdner at sma-america.com wrote:

> William:
>
> Instead of a lock how about a short bolt, lock washer, and nut through

> the locking tab. Now it requires a tool to open but not a key.
> If there guys want to see it then they can remove the bolt.
> Keeps the little kiddies out but still gives them access.
> That is if they ever come out to see the blades before the house and
the
> switchbox crumble into dust.
>
> If you have any questions, or if I can be of any further assistance, 
> please do not hesitate to contact me.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> John Berdner
>
> SMA America, Inc.
> 20830 Red Dog Road
> Grass Valley, CA  95945
> 530.273.4895 (voice)
> 530.274.7271 (fax)
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: William Miller [mailto:wrmiller at slonet.org]
> Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 12:05 AM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> Venerable Colleagues:
>
> I have always had mixed emotions about disconnect switches:
>
> Just today a bunch of us attended a meeting with PG&E.  I asked the
> question:  "Why don't any of the line crews I've queried have any data

> about where these switches are located?"  The answer was, "We are 
> redrawing the maps and they will be on there within the year."
>
> My thoughts:  If this is so important for safety, why the delay, and, 
> conversely, all new things take time, and if we did not install the 
> switches now, they couldn't ever be on a secondary map in the future.
>
> I also had to replace a couple of disconnect switches because they 
> lacked external handles.  I was told that line crews need to be able 
> to inspect the handles from their vehicles.  I responded: What if the 
> meter is in the back yard? and, Are they going to padlock them from 
> their trucks?  No reply was given to these somewhat facetious 
> questions.
>
> Another complaint about safety switches:  Children can open them and 
> access live parts.  Lock them shut and you can't inspect the blades.  
> Oy vay!
>
> All in all, if implemented reasonably, the switches do kind of make 
> sense. Backfeeds have killed line workers.  Technology does fail, even

> with redundant safety systems.  This is one of my arguments against 
> nuclear power and I guess it applies here.
>
> Regarding Jeff's situation, I'd consider the time it takes to fight 
> them versus the time it takes to replace a switch.  Jeff could insist 
> on a list of approved switches and if they ever try to disallow 
> previously allowed switches, fight them based on the written evidence.
>
> Sorry I did not have a clearer answer to this thorny question.
>
> William
>
>
>
> At 07:19 PM 5/7/02 EDT, you wrote:
> >In a message dated 05/07/2002 9:43:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, 
> >jberdner at sma-america.com writes:
> >
> >
> >> Makes perfect sense to me.
> >> They want it to be more expensive to install so less people will do

> >> it.
> >>
> >
> >We all know that it is not about actually using the switch for 
> >safety. You all are right, don't expect any servicemen to be out 
> >looking for
> disconnects
> >on that dark and rainy night when the system is down--they will be 
> >very
> busy
> >doing other things.
> >
> >The switch is about control. I had a customer locked out once. During

> >the meter install the service man determined erroneously that the 
> >system
> had not
> >been permitted. At that point he took the inititive to lock the PV 
> >out.
> A
> >call the next day to his supervisor got it fixed. I can say this is 
> >the
> only
> >time I saw a utility person use the switch. It's about control.
> >
> >Don
> >
> >--
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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> __________________________________________________________________
> William Miller
> Miller Power and Communications
> PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
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> email: wrmiller at slonet.org
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David Blittersdorf
NRG Systems, Inc.
110 Commerce Street
Hinesburg, VT 05461 USA
Tel: 802-482-2255
Fax: 802-482-2272
email: davidb at nrgsystems.com
Web:http://www.nrgsystems.com

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