utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]

Mon May 6 22:02:17 PDT 2002

Jeff, Larry, Wrenches,
Been waiting to tell this story...SDG&E territory here in S. CA.

A customer reported a planned outage for work in their area.  I had just
spent some time with the SDG&E Principal Administrator for Distribution
Management, etal and got her blessing finally on a grid-tie with battery
backup in the middle of a circa 80's construction suburban neighborhood.  I
say finally, cuz she made a big hullabaloo about the system being "mapped"
first and clearly noted on the maps that their linemen use--this had to be
done well before we could be allowed to parallel to make sure it was "in the
system" as far as the special maps the linemen use when they work in a
particular area for whatever reason.

We were/are also required to have a "plaque" next to the service entry/panel
box area that clearly pointed out that solar electric devices were on the
roof and that this thing with the handle on it was a visible
breaker/disconnect, inverter here, batteries there, etal.

She also mentioned that SDG&E had just went through some rather dictatorial
sessions with line crew managers about looking for grid-tied systems and
utilizing the disconnect/visible breaker, what PV stands for, etc, all for
their own safety of course.   We got our letter for auth to parallel in
about the normal delay time of about 5 days after the SDG&E inspection,
which itself was prompted by the local jurisdiction permitting inspectors
having notified SDG&E.  This required a seperate set of phone calls to
remind the City that this was their job and their protocol.  The city
inspector had forgotten when he got back to the office.  Anyway, assuming
the system was mapped and that we were all good with everyone concerned, I
thought I'd wait for the outage to occur, check on the backup power delivery
from the inverter, and of course, chat with the crew manager when he came to
engage the disco.  So arranged with the customer who would be gone, I was
there, but no SDG&E.  The power went out and the SW performed flawlessly and
the batteries delivered for the next 4 hours.

I went and found the guys around the corner on a more arterial street in the
neighborhood.  After some discussion, they all agreed that if "she said to
do it, we had better go do it", but that "we're safe since we ground
everything we work on" and they thought no more about it, but the crew
manager then said he'd like to follow me back to the house and throw the
disconnect handle down.  I made him promise to turn it back on after they
were done in the area, since I didn't feel the need to stick around for all
the un-excitement.  A phone call to the customer the next morning verified
what I already knew--they lost the rest of the day's sunshine.  A follow-up
conversation with the Administrator was met with only slightly embarassed
tone in her voice and she demanded details and times and names, although I
didn't take any.  It was par for the course from what I've seen and I've
only worked with three main ESP's here in CA and one muni (Riverside).  They
want it and demand it but don't really seem to think about using it in
actual practice.  But there you go, one incident where I've actually seen
the switch thrown by a utility.  Basically, I had to encourage them to do
it!  Everyone really liked the plaque though.

Peter Duchon
http://www.podnine.com/asap_power
Photovoltaics * Wind Power * Fuel Cells
mailto:asap at podnine.com
USA 866-724-3444 * Cell 760-717-3779

-----Original Message-----
From: Jeffrey Wolfe, Global Resources [mailto:global at sover.net]
Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:59 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches at topica.com'
Subject: RE: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]

Lawrence,

You're absolutely right. There is NO valid technical reason for the
disconnect. IEEE 929 proved that once and for all (Utilities or states are
"allowed" to adopt the requirement for a disco if "required" for labor or
administrative reasons. There are NO technical reasons provided in IEEE 929
for the disco.)

Question for EVERYONE:

Who knows of a net metering system where the utility has USED the
disconnect?

Anyone?

There is no evidence of any disconnect ever having been used in VT.

I'd like to know as much detail about any incident if one was disconnected
by the utility.

Jeff

On Monday, May 06, 2002 10:42 PM, Lawrence  Elliott
[SMTP:larry at energyoutfitters.com] wrote:
> Jeffrey.
> Thought you might find it interesting that just a few hours ago I was
> able to ask one of the officials from a local Muni utility and he said
> point blank that no disconnect of any kind on a grid intertie system is
> required in their service territory.
> This either means that the utility is very irresponsible and has no
> regard for the saftey of their service personel or this requirement by
> any utility is simply a silly and essentially brain dead attempt at
> making you life diffucult.
> Personally I don't think this utility disregards safety.
>
> I say challenge this crap with a vigor.
>
> Larry Elliott
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeffrey Wolfe, Global Resources" <global at sover.net>
> To: "'RE- wrenches at topica.com'" <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Monday, May 06, 2002 7:20 PM
> Subject: utility obfuscation and obstruction [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> > Just received a letter today from our local big utility wannabe.
> Central
> > Vermont "Public Service" is Vermont's largest utility, but tiny on a
> > national scale. But they try to be lke the big guys, and aparently
> take
> > their cues from the folks at NIMO.
> >
> > I've installed quite a few systems in their territory, and for the
> past two
> > years, I've used the Milbank airconditioning type disconnect as the
> > "utility accessible, locakable, load break rated, visible break
> disconnect
> > switch..." required in the Vermont (and many other) state net metering
> > regulations.
> >
> > today, I received a letter from CVPS as follows:
> >
> > "Dear Mr. Wolfe:
> >
> > "It has come to my attention that your Company has installed Milbank
> air
> > conditioning disconnects in lieu of the required disconnect switch on
> at
> > least three Net Metered customers.
> >
> > "This device is a disconnect NOT a switch. It does not meet the
> > requirements of VT PSB Rule 5.100 " A utility accessible, locakable,
> load
> > break rated, visible break disconnect switch with safe working
> clearances
> > is required for all installations.
> >
> > "We are hereby requesting that the locations in question be
> retro-fitted
> > with the correct type of switch as soon as possible.
> >
> > "If you have any questions, please contact me.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> >
> > Allan D. St. Peter, P.E.
> > Electrical Engineer
> >
> > Is this utility trying to block RE? or just being safety conscious?
> The
> > little Milbank disconnects have been recommended for this service by,
> among
> > others, John Wiles. (I spoke with him today, and received a few
> pointers
> > for combating this, which I will do.) I'm not sure how quibbling about
> the
> > definition of a "swtich" is really helping RE move forward. It's
> > interesting to note of course, that no code or standard, to my
> knowledge,
> > has a clear definition of what a "visible break disconnect switch" is.
> > According to everything I can read in NEC, the Milbank fits the
> > description. (As John pointed out, one cannot safely trust the handle
> of a
> > safety switch to indicate the open or closed position. The mechanism
> CAN
> > break. One must see the contacts, which requires opening the safety
> > switch.)
> >
> > So I've just written notes to the homeowners (who were copied by CVPS
> on
> > the above letter) reassuring them that their installation is safe and
> code
> > compliant.
> >
> > We'll fight this. It will be interesting to see if CVPS attempts to
> > disconnect the customers' systems. They'd either have to pull the
> meter,
> > or, shudder, use the Milbank switch.
> >
> > I'll let you know how we make out. Any contributions to the defense
> fund
> > should be kept cold and presented at the MREF.
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> > - - - -
> > To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> >
> > Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
> >
> > List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
> >
> > Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
> >
> > Hosted by Home Power magazine
> >
> > Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> - - - -
> To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com
>
> Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/
>
> List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm
>
> Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html
>
> Hosted by Home Power magazine
>
> Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com
>
>

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

- - - -
To send a message: RE-wrenches at topica.com

Archive of previous messages: http://www.topica.com/lists/RE-wrenches/

List rules & etiquette: http://www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/etiquete.htm

Check out participant bios: www.mrsharkey.com/wrenches/index.html

Hosted by Home Power magazine

Moderator: michael.welch at homepower.com

==^================================================================
This email was sent to: michael.welch at homepower.com

EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?bz8Qcs.bz9JC9
Or send an email to: RE-wrenches-unsubscribe at topica.com

T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail!
http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register
==^================================================================