RE and Regulations, both UL and IEEE [RE-wrenches]

Richard Perez, Home Power magazine richard.perez at homepower.com
Thu May 2 13:49:38 PDT 2002


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Hello Bill and Wrenches

Well, Bill, I clearly see that we disagree on the issues of RE and 
regulation. Here are some responses to your post.

I didn't state that UL and IEEE were in cahoots, I stated that the 
utilities set the standards for UI inverters and the IEEE rubber 
stamped these standards.

In terms of solar folks being "whiners", it was these "whiners" who 
did the political work necessary to get net-metering laws passed in 
35 states. Bill, can you show me just one instance where RE net 
metering legislation was introduced by a utility?

In terms of the UI problems being in the inverters and not in the 
standards, this is, how did you say, "hogwash." We've been running 
some of these same inverters off-grid for years now. We monitor their 
output characteristics. Their output voltage stability and THD is 
better than the grid can deliver to the average wall socket.

The problem is that utilities are holding UI inverters to stability 
standards that the utilities themselves cannot achieve. The grid goes 
outside of these standards and the UI inverter is forced to 
disconnect. Utilities are effectively not allowing us our legal right 
to net meter because of these unrealistic standards.

As far as the guerrillas being the "dark side", I would counter that 
the dark side is really Enron and their buddies. Folks go guerrilla 
because their local utility makes it impossible for them to UI 
legally. Electric power is a huge business with billions of dollars 
involved, and it's going to take decades before those in power give 
up their century-long monopoly.

I have no bones to pick with utility engineers and workers--they are 
honest, hardworking people. My brother, Michael, is fixing to retire 
from the San Antonio, Texas Muni utility after 20 plus years of 
service. He's retiring off-grid and using PVs for power, but that's 
another story.

The problems I have are with the greed-heads who manage many of this 
nation's utilities. Their objective is money--the welfare of the 
people, and the health of this planet, are secondary to next 
quarter's profits.

When you call solar a "disruptive technology", I have to wonder what 
is being disrupted. Utility profits? Utility control? The way we've 
always produced our power?

I consider solar energy to be a democratic gift to us all--power 
freely offered by nature. Solar's current problem is that utilities 
can't put a meter on sunshine.

You bet we'll print your post, and my response, in Home Power. Expect 
to see it in our August/September 2002 issue. The June/July issue is 
already printed.

No hard feelings taken, Bill, and none given. You and I are 
approaching a common problem from different perspectives. I hope we 
can all work together to solarize America.

Richard

At 17:35 -0700 05/01/2002, Bill Brooks wrote:
>Richard and Christopher,
>
>While I agree that competition is good when it comes to NRTLs to keep costs
>lower for everyone, I want to point out that listing of PV products has had
>a huge beneficial impact on the PV industry. We have had over 2000 PV
>installations permitted and inspected in California and most of those
>systems would never have happened if listed equip did not exist. This is
>just the beginning of a whole new market for solar products that cannot be
>ignored. I can think of things I would like to see different at both UL and
>ETL so I am not going to get drawn into a discussion of who's good and bad.
>
>A conspiracy theory surrounding UL in cahoots with IEEE in developing a
>standard that cannot be met is utter hogwash to put it mildly. Questioning
>the IEEE standards on a state-by-state basis would have absolutely no
>benefit to the PV industry. Complaining about IEEE standards will have the
>undesirable effect of classifying our PV industry as a bunch of whiners. We
>have already achieved that status with several states and it has made
>progress more difficult rather than easier. If you want to keep PV offgrid,
>what is being suggested in the article below will help toward that end.
>
>The problem is not IEEE 929 as so many folks so fondly think, the problem is
>that the manufacturers have had a tough time making their existing products
>work with the standards. Now the problem is either that the standard sucks
>or its time to go back and do a little more homework on the inverter design
>(the latter if your stuck on which one is right). Operating connected to a
>utility system is a very difficult task, and most manufacturers don't get it
>right the first time or two. The utility grid does have some problems in
>many rural areas and our equipment shows some of those problems. However,
>most problems I have run across that was blaimed on the grid was actually an
>inverter malfunction or miscalibration. That makes it tougher to put the
>pressure on when the utility actually is at fault.
>
>The utility industry lives and dies on standards. We have IEEE 929 that
>virtually every utility that has seriously looked at it has adopted. Did
>they adopt it to squash PV--heck no. The utilities that have used standards
>to squash PV are the ones that refuse to adopt it.
>
>I can easily say without exaggeration that I have had more experience
>working with utility engineers on these issues than most other folks on this
>wrenches list, and this reactionary approach smokes my tail feathers. I will
>also be the first to admit that many utilities can and have been obstructing
>PV installations. I can also say that many of the utilities that used to
>obstruct systems, are now allowing them. What changed? a lot of education
>and pioneering groundwork by several people.
>
>Pioneering is never fun and games, its hard work. Have we arrived,
>absolutely not. We have a long way to go in developing better products that
>are easier to permit, easier to install, and easier to keep running for 25
>years. Do we quit now because its still hard--from reading responses to this
>list there is now way that represents most wrenches viewpoint.
>
>Don't wimp out at being a pioneer and succumb to the dark side of being a
>solar guerilla. Stick with being a pioneer and make PV easy for your
>children and grandchildren. Guerillas are not moving this industry forward.
>They are either hurting by being a bad example or having absolutely no
>positive impact because they don't exist in the real world.
>
>When we run into opposition, we must first ask ourselves if the opposition
>is because someone has it out for the technology, or because they don't
>understand it. Nine out of 10 folks that I run into that initially oppose
>the technology are doing it to be vindictive, but because they don't
>understand it yet. We have to market this disruptive technology effectively
>showing that it can provide so many benefits that existing utility power
>cannot. Enough said for now. (Richard if you would like to publish this as a
>counterpoint--feel free--thanks for the opportunity to vent and no hard
>feelings
>
>Bill.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Richard Perez, Home Power magazine
>[mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com]
>Sent: Wednesday, May 01, 2002 2:34 PM
>To: RE Wrenches
>Subject: RE and Regulations, both UL and IEEE [RE-wrenches]
>
>
>Hello Wrenches
>
>I want to agree with Christopher Freitas on UL being a roadblock in
>the way of RE progress. I have no bones to pick with safety and the
>necessary function of certifying gear which is safe, I just think
>that UL has become reactionary.
>
>And these sort of regulatory problems don't stop with UL. We've also
>got specs for grid-tied inverters that are bogus, essentially written
>by utilities and rubber stamped by the IEEE.
>
>Here's a preview of a short article which will appear in the
>June/July issue of Home Power. I am hoping that Wrenches will lead
>the way in getting the standards for utility intertied inverters on
>some reasonable and realistic standard.
>
>Get Organized!
>
>Utah just became the 35th state to pass a net metering law. Is our
>struggle to bring homemade renewable energy on-grid just about done?
>No such luck. As with many legal issues, the devil is in the
>details....
>
>At a recent solar business seminar held by Energy Outfitters, more
>than 35 RE dealers heard presentations by industry representatives,
>including three grid-intertie inverter manufacturers. One of the
>major grid-intertie problems discussed was the Institute of
>Electrical and Electronics Engineers (IEEE) 519 and 929 standards.
>These standards set power quality and anti-islanding requirements for
>grid-intertie inverters, and are included in most state net metering
>laws.
>
>Many dealers and manufacturers are finding that grid-intertie
>inverters jump off-grid, or even refuse to connect to the grid at
>all. When utility grids are undervoltage, overvoltage, or have too
>much distortion, inverters programmed to IEEE standards will not
>connect.
>
>This isn't a safety issue. Safety is taken care of by other
>grid-intertie inverter standards (UL 1741). This is an issue of the
>grid's power quality. What we are discovering is that in many areas,
>the grid is far too funky to allow inverter intertie. The utilities
>are holding our RE inverters to standards that they cannot maintain
>themselves!
>
>I view these IEEE standards as just another in a long series of
>roadblocks that utilities have put in the way of grid-intertied, RE.
>Having a state net metering law is irrelevant if the inverter is held
>to standards that will not allow it to connect to the grid. The
>further irony is that our grid-connected RE could help the utilities
>clean up their grid power quality problems!
>
>It's time to get organized again. The only way to effectively change
>this situation is for us, state by state, to question the IEEE
>standards. We need to go to our state PUCs and governments, and lobby
>for change. I'm sorry that our work didn't end with passing net
>metering laws. Now we have to go for the devil in the details.
>
>If you want to help, e-mail me. I'll act as an information
>clearinghouse until individual state groups get organized. We've got
>some work to do.
>
>Access
>Richard Perez, Home Power
>mailto:richard.perez at homepower.com
>http://www.homepower.com

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