Hot Water Software [RE-wrenches]

[graham at solarexpert.com]

Hi Travis,

I forgot to mention that plastic pool panels are much more prone to 
leaking than metal panels.  The thin plastic walls of the rows of water 
passageways are easily punctured.  Once the local rodents, including 
squirrels realize that chewing on the panels will supply water will 
result in a continuos string of service calls.  Cats have also been 
known to sharpen their claws on the panels and many little fountains 
result.

The most critical part of a solar pool heating installation is to make 
sure the feed pipe has positive drainage.  When the pump shuts off the 
vacuum breaker must allow air to enter the system and all of the water 
goes back into the pool.  This is necessary to illuminate the 
possibility of freeze damage.  Also make sure that any 3-way diverter 
valves have a non-positive seal so that the panels will eventually drain 
back even if the system is in by-pass mode.

I also need to mention that another reason why I only install metal 
panels is the fact that I purchase them directly from the manufacturer, 
Professional Solar Products in Camarillo.  When we pick up a set of pool 
panels the manufacturer also has aluminum racks, flashable mounts, 
valves and control systems in stock, this is very convenient.  We also 
purchase our grid connected systems directly from Siemens in Camarillo, 
about 2 blocks away from Pro solar.  I am very used to sending a truck 
to Camarillo to get all of our solar equipment.  Stan at Pro solar also 
manufactures the mounting systems for a number of module manufacturers, 
including Siemens.  I try and purchase materials directly from local 
manufacturers whenever possible.  If you can get plastic panels locally 
they may be your best option.  The best plastics I have seen are Fafco 
and SI.

Graham Owen
GO Solar Company


graham at solarexpert.com wrote:
> Hi Travis,
> 
> I will try and clarify why I personally prefer to install metal solar 
> pool heating panels as opposed to plastic.
> 
> Metal is a conductor of heat and plastic is an insulator.  Plastic 
> panels heat water just as well as metal panels, but to accomplish this, 
> the plastic panels need many dozens of small diameter water passageways 
> that are more prone to clogging.  Metal panels absorb heat more readily, 
> 
> so they can have absorber fins between the larger diameter water 
> passageways, resulting in less back pressure on the pump.
> 
> Typically plastic panels are mounted flush on a roof and secured with 
> straps.  This leads to debris build-up and eventually reduces the 
> longevity of the roof.  Metal panels are rigid so they can be mounted on 
> 
> a couple of stringers a few inches above the roof.  This method of 
> attachment is structural and allows the roof to breath and shed debris.  
> 
> Metal panels are also non-flammable. Plastic panels are more easily torn 
> 
> by severe winds and can make flapping noises.
> 
> Since the 1990's I have personally installed many thousands of pool 
> panels, some of these installations were removing and re-installing 
> panels to allow for re-roofing.  This allowed me to see what works best. 
> 
>  I work on some very large and expensive homes and my customers want the 
> best.  I have a sample piece of a new plastic and metal panel as well as 
> 
> a sample of a metal and plastic panel that is 15 years old.  It is easy 
> to see which looks best after a decade goes by.
> 
> Plastic panels are cheaper to purchase and many people have them 
> installed in Los Angeles, but I never sell or install plastics.  People 
> selling plastic panels warn potential clients that plastic is not harmed 
> 
> by pool chemical and copper will deteriorate.  Most pool heater cores 
> are copper and many pools are plumbed with copper, especially the older 
> ones.  Proper pool chemistry will not harm copper pipes in the metal 
> pool panels.  With that said, I once encountered a customer (85 years 
> old) that poured a 20 lb bag of shock treatment into his pool, the 
> product was sucked straight up into the panels and damaged two panels as 
> 
> well as leaving a purple ring around his pool.  This was one isolated 
> case.
> 
> I installed 8 pool panels last week to replace 8 metal panels that were 
> installed in 1981.  But with the big demand for grid-connected systems 
> in Los Angeles I do not anticipate installing many more pool heaters.  
> At least until the LADWP $6.00 per watt rebate expires.  I am installing 
> 
> at least one 2.6 kw system weekly.  This week I did Don Foster's house 
> the writer of the show Darma and Greg and my next 13 installs sold are 
> to actors and producers.  Having installed solar panels since 1982 I am 
> noticing a dramatic and exciting increase in the demand for solar energy 
> 
> in Los Angeles.  I wish I could install more systems but I personally 
> drill and seal every hole on my customers roofs and these PV systems 
> require a lot of roof penetrations.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> Graham Owen
> GO Solar Company
> 
> 
> Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar wrote:
> > Hi Graham,
> > 
> > I have only installed a few solar pool heaters (in 10 years) and see it 
> > as a
> > potentially good business.  I'll refer to your suggestions the next time 
> > 
> > I
> > get a call about it.  They seem like naturally good sellers but.....
> > 
> > At you convenience could you elaborate some more about metal vs. plastic
> > panels.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Travis Creswell
> > Ozark Solar
> > 
> > 
> > ----------
> > >From: graham at solarexpert.com
> > >To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > >Subject: RE: Hot Water Software [RE-wrenches]
> > >Date: Thu, Oct 4, 2001, 8:49 PM
> > >
> > 
> > >Hi  Travis,
> > >
> > >I have installed a number of solar pool heating systems in the Los 
> > >Angeles area.  I also use the surface area of the pool for sizing 
> > >systems.  The surface of the pool is where almost all of the heat is 
> > >gained and lost.  Evaporation on the surface a pool can significantly 
> > >reduce the water temperature (thermal mass), especially so when the wind 
> > >
> > >
> > >is blowing.
> > >
> > >What I look for when sizing a system is for three specific site 
> > >conditions. 1. Is the pool in the shade or in direct sunlight during 
> > >most of the day?  2. Can the solar panels face south, as opposed to east 
> > >
> > >
> > >or west?   3.  Is the pool sheltered from prevailing winds?
> > >
> > >If all of these site requirements are positive, I start with a minimum 
> > >of 50 to 60% coverage.  Length of the pool x Width of the pool x 55%.  
> > >If the panels face east and the pool is partially shaded I would install 
> > >
> > >
> > >100% coverage.
> > >
> > >The average pool in L.A. is 15' x 30' = 450 square feet x 55% = 248 
> > >square feet.  Since the average pool panel is 4' x 10' I would divide 
> > >248 by 40 = 6 panels. 
> > >
> > >The temperature the client wants the pool must also be considered.  The 
> > >trickiest part of most pool installations is how to get two 2" PVC pipes 
> > >
> > >
> > >and the sensor wire from the pump to the side of the house where they go 
> > >
> > >
> > >up to the roof.  I also closely check the condition of the roof and if 
> > >the ceiling inside is open beam.
> > >
> > >I prefer metal panels but some of the plastic panels seem to have 
> > >improved lately.
> > >
> > >I have more info on this web page www.solarexpert.com/poolheat.html
> > >
> > >I hope this helps,
> > >
> > >Graham Owen
> > >GO Solar Company.
> > >
> > >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 

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