Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]

[Tom Elliot]

Bill,

I certainly understand your concerns, I expressed the same ones to the folks
I bought the buss equipment from.  However they were quite confident such a
setup would work in a typical RE installation.  The equipment I used is
designed to handle many times the current loads I could ever place on it and
the cable is very much overspec'ed.

There are few RE installations that put anything like the load on their
systems and battery banks as a typical telco installation and a telco system
is installed in just the manner I installed mine.

BTW, my bank is completely covered, none of that stuff is exposed.  I just
left off the outside of the box for the pictures.

If you think about it you will realize that the loads on individual strings,
cables and the system as a whole in my installation is far better
distributed and able to handle max loads than a typical series/parallel
installation.

As for 48 volt systems, I see the point about 2 volt cells.

Tom


----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Brooks" <billbrooks7 at earthlink.net>
To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:02 AM
Subject: RE: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]


> Tom,
>
> I see what you mean now, but my original comments about a listed "system"
> stand. Although I'm sure what you've done will work, I would hate to be
the
> inspector that had to say that it was a safe system. Please understand
that
> I am not knocking your installation, it is simply that there is very
little
> to go on to say that your design will be safe under the expected operating
> conditions. That is what an inspector has to test for if they do not have
a
> UL listed battery system. Article 480 and 690 are not very much help on
> these subjects.
>
> Bill.
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Tom Elliot [mailto:telliot at wagonmaker.com]
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:24 AM
> > To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> > Subject: Re: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > My original post and my installation are not about battery
*interconnects*
> > but about the connections between batteries (or series connected
> > batteries)
> > and a *main buss* (see http://www.wagonmaker.com/newbatt.html to
> > see what I
> > mean).  In my installation the series pairs are interconnected with 1/0
> > cables and the pairs are connected to the main buss with 1/0 cables.  It
> > isn't about stress on battery terminals or replacing cables it is
> > about the
> > wiring scheme itself.
> >
> > A main buss is designed as the central connection point for all series
> > strings in order to eliminate the parallel battery connections that are
a
> > weak point in battery banks.
> >
> > We've all known for a long time that too many paralleled series strings
is
> > not good.  What surprises me now is that we could think that
> > *any* parallel
> > connected series strings are a good idea.  If a parallel
> > connection is good
> > then it should be no problem for any number of series strings.
> > By limiting
> > ourselves to only 3 or 4 parallel strings we are keeping the problems at
a
> > low enough level that they don't show up right away.
> >
> > It seems to me that we can just eliminate the problem entirely by
> > eliminating any parallel strings and connecting the batteries and
inverter
> > together through a main buss that evenly distributes
> > charge/discharge across
> > all the series strings.
> >
> > Tom
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Brooks" <billbrooks7 at earthlink.net>
> > To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 5:31 AM
> > Subject: RE: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]
> >
> >
> > > Bob,
> > >
> > > In my mind the issue is whether the busbar was designed to be used
with
> > that
> > > particular battery. Since the only battery systems to be listed
> > are UPSs,
> > > anything we do with batteries could probably be challenged by an
> > inspector.
> > >
> > > My personal preference is flexible cables like those that Trace
> > sells. The
> > > key benefit of flexibility is that it does not stress the battery
> > terminals.
> > > Busbars and rigid cables can stress terminals unless they have been
> > designed
> > > as part of a system where terminal stress has been considered in the
> > > engineered design.
> > >
> > > Our industry is in desperate need of listed battery systems. It
> > will make
> > > inspection much more straightforward.
> > >
> > > Bill.
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Bob Ellison, Alternative Energy Systems
> > [mailto:ellison at gisco.net]
> > > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:36 AM
> > > > To: RE-wrenches
> > > > Subject: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Can anyone tell me where in article 690 of the NEC that bus bars are
> > > > excluded from use in home power systems?
> > > > I had a discussion with a telecom designer and they use them all the
> > time.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks,
> > > > Bob
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > RE. Ellison
> > > > Supplier of;
> > > > Diesel Generators &
> > > > Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies
> > > > 34642 Countryman Road
> > > > Theresa, NY. USA
> > > >                               13691-2076
> > > >
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