Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]

Bill Brooks billbrooks7 at earthlink.net
Mon Sep 17 14:02:29 PDT 2001


Tom,

I see what you mean now, but my original comments about a listed "system"
stand. Although I'm sure what you've done will work, I would hate to be the
inspector that had to say that it was a safe system. Please understand that
I am not knocking your installation, it is simply that there is very little
to go on to say that your design will be safe under the expected operating
conditions. That is what an inspector has to test for if they do not have a
UL listed battery system. Article 480 and 690 are not very much help on
these subjects.

Bill.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Elliot [mailto:telliot at wagonmaker.com]
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 11:24 AM
> To: RE-wrenches at topica.com
> Subject: Re: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> Bill,
>
> My original post and my installation are not about battery *interconnects*
> but about the connections between batteries (or series connected
> batteries)
> and a *main buss* (see http://www.wagonmaker.com/newbatt.html to
> see what I
> mean).  In my installation the series pairs are interconnected with 1/0
> cables and the pairs are connected to the main buss with 1/0 cables.  It
> isn't about stress on battery terminals or replacing cables it is
> about the
> wiring scheme itself.
>
> A main buss is designed as the central connection point for all series
> strings in order to eliminate the parallel battery connections that are a
> weak point in battery banks.
>
> We've all known for a long time that too many paralleled series strings is
> not good.  What surprises me now is that we could think that
> *any* parallel
> connected series strings are a good idea.  If a parallel
> connection is good
> then it should be no problem for any number of series strings.
> By limiting
> ourselves to only 3 or 4 parallel strings we are keeping the problems at a
> low enough level that they don't show up right away.
>
> It seems to me that we can just eliminate the problem entirely by
> eliminating any parallel strings and connecting the batteries and inverter
> together through a main buss that evenly distributes
> charge/discharge across
> all the series strings.
>
> Tom
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Brooks" <billbrooks7 at earthlink.net>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 5:31 AM
> Subject: RE: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]
>
>
> > Bob,
> >
> > In my mind the issue is whether the busbar was designed to be used with
> that
> > particular battery. Since the only battery systems to be listed
> are UPSs,
> > anything we do with batteries could probably be challenged by an
> inspector.
> >
> > My personal preference is flexible cables like those that Trace
> sells. The
> > key benefit of flexibility is that it does not stress the battery
> terminals.
> > Busbars and rigid cables can stress terminals unless they have been
> designed
> > as part of a system where terminal stress has been considered in the
> > engineered design.
> >
> > Our industry is in desperate need of listed battery systems. It
> will make
> > inspection much more straightforward.
> >
> > Bill.
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Bob Ellison, Alternative Energy Systems
> [mailto:ellison at gisco.net]
> > > Sent: Monday, September 17, 2001 7:36 AM
> > > To: RE-wrenches
> > > Subject: Bus Bars on batteries [RE-wrenches]
> > >
> > >
> > > Can anyone tell me where in article 690 of the NEC that bus bars are
> > > excluded from use in home power systems?
> > > I had a discussion with a telecom designer and they use them all the
> time.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Bob
> > >
> > >
> > > RE. Ellison
> > > Supplier of;
> > > Diesel Generators &
> > > Alternative Energy Systems & Supplies
> > > 34642 Countryman Road
> > > Theresa, NY. USA
> > >                               13691-2076
> > >
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