ST problems [RE-wrenches]

[Jim Hartley]

Travis Creswell, Ozark Solar wrote:
> Thanks William. You're right, this is sort of thing the Wrenches list is
> for.  My experience regarding the ST and batteryless inverters in 
> general is
> zero (other than a Omnion about 6 or 7 years ago)... I have yet to 
> install
> one or even have a customer think seriously about installing one.  Cheap
> electricity  combined with no tax credits or buy down program pretty 
> much
> guarantee that no one will take them seriously anywhere near me.  I 
> would be
> interested to know what sort of sales these inverters are having in 
> areas
> similar to mine.

You and I have had a few private chit-chats about this situation before. 
 Your area isn't quite the same as mine but we are both in the Mid-West, 
nonetheless.  Illinois, however, does have a RE rebate program for both 
consumer and commercial applications which has been up and running for 
about two years now I think. Businesses can also work a federal tax 
angle as well assuming they know about it.  So, incentives do exist but 
utility electric power is still relatively cheap here as well.

Like you, I have yet to be involved selling/installing any grid tie 
apparatus.  I have dealt with a number of prospects, a few quite 
extensively to no avail as yet.  It was getting very time consuming 
doing so with no reward attached.  I have since changed how I would 
offer my time in such endeavors.  These prospects always got the willies 
over the costs involved versus what their investment payback perception 
was.  Even the seeming "Greenies" showed their weak knees.  Still, a few 
systems have gone in here and there over the past couple of years I 
understand.  ComEd the major utility here in Illinois services pretty 
much all of northern Illinois.  According to their RE program manager 
who was publicly quizzed back in the spring about their program 
involvement, they had been party to 12 RE installations so far.  This 
person also stated that their ratepayer base was 3.5 million customers.  
That's not much activity for their huge operating base.  Were these all 
grid-tie systems?  I can't say.  Even if they were, not many had been 
installed to date even with the state rebates available.  How many such 
systems have gone in since then, I don't know.  Back in April I tried 
contacting this program manager about various matters of interest to me 
as a potential supplier/installer.  I am still waiting for a response, 
with less and less expectation of hearing anything at this point.  I 
suppose I should try again, someday when I'm in a better mood.

As to inverter problems, this has also been a major concern of mine.
It's difficult enough getting people to buy into such technology around 
here let alone having things crapping out.  That is absolutely not a 
road I can afford to travel in a serious business sense.  As William 
notes below, this is a deadly killer for a business in respect to wasted 
time, money and goodwill.  I'm fortunate to have another business 
endeavor which allows me to spend time pursuing the RE activity but even 
with that there are limits to what misfortunes I'm willing to absorb.  
This is especially so if your client ends up being at some substantial 
distance away from where you are established.  That would certainly be 
the case around here from what I have seen so far, even the prospects 
alone are few and far between.

Ideally, I would like to sell this stuff right here in my hometown to 
make things somewhat more convenient to myself, assuming there were 
seriously interested parties.  Odds are there won't be.  This owes to 
the fact that were I live the city proper has its own utility setup 
reselling power purchased from various outside generators. In doing so, 
they elect not to charge their customers the adder fees that are used to 
fund the state rebate programs.  Hence, nobody in my town qualifies for 
the state rebates.  Nearby Naperville, the state's second largest city, 
does the same thing, in effect disqualifying those affluent residents 
similarly.  So, in short, even with state investment incentives in 
place, not everybody is eligible.  For me that is a huge problem since 
it forces me to pretty much ignore the two areas of greatest interest 
and potential locally.  This means that I must consider opportunities 
that may be quite far afield.  Having lots of problems with equipment 
scattered "far afield" is NOT what I need to be worrying about. 
Accordingly, I have approached this entire RE business thing with very 
measured steps lately.  I don't need going belly up to prove any points. 
 And the people I might choose to do business with don't need me going 
belly up either.  This is why the reliability issues which surface in 
this forum absolutely have to be dealt with seriously and expeditiously. 
 Otherwise, some of us may not be bothering anymore.  That is my current 
view on things.


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "William Miller" <wrmiller at slonet.org>
> To: <RE-wrenches at topica.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2001 11:52 PM
> Subject: ST problems [RE-wrenches]
> 
> 
> > Friends:
> >
> > I will continue to report on progress with all RE equipment I am exposed
> to
> > as that is one of the prime functions of a group such as this.  Below is
> an
> > e-mail message indicative of my experience working with ST inverters.  
> > I'm
> > sure you are all aware what a drag it is to continue to travel to a
> > client's location after the job is done for repeated equipment problems.
> > The engineers at Trace are great folks and dedicated, but in spite of
> their
> > efforts, the problems continue.
> >
> > Here is the score card:  Of the 8 ST inverters installed so far:
> >
> > 2 are working consistently, albeit with a lower efficiency than I might
> > have expected.
> > 1 has been replaced with a Sunny Boy at the clients insistence
> > 1 is showing reduced output after replacing the firmware
> > 1 produces a reduced power output before the required time out
> > 1 was purchased by the customer over the internet and is now his 
> > problem,
> > but it was shutting down consistently.
> > 2 have "died" as per the message below after other problems (displays
> > blanking, shutting down)
> >
> > I have enjoyed working with the SW equipment in spite of shortcomings.  
> > I
> > hope Trace improves reliability with the ST line.  I am willing to 
> > assist
> > where I can, but the process is costing me time, money, and customer
> > confidence.
> >
> > I have heard little from others on the ST performance, good or bad.  I
> > would speculate that: not many are using them and/or others are not
> > comfortable publishing their negative experiences for fear of straining
> > relations with Trace.  I guess the latter may be an advantage to an
> > installer not being a dealer.  I can't say I enjoy being the only one
> > complaining about a product, but I feel compelled to assist my 
> > colleagues
> > by providing accurate reports from the field.
> >
> > Stay tuned.
> >
> > ---Text of client message:
> >
> > Hi William,
> >
> > Sorry to say that both inverters "died" this afternoon.... R. called
> > (supplier) earlier after we got your phone message since the right one
> > was cycling way down again, and he asked that both of them be replaced
> since
> > the left one had started making a louder buzzing noise also. When I went
> to
> > check on them later today, both were making a repeating zap sound and 
> > the
> > displays were blinking on and off in unison with the sound. As soon as
> > they're reinstalled, I'll test as you asked.
> >
> > G.
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________________________
> > William Miller
> > SLO Communications: Communications and Power Systems Consulting
> > PO Box 50, Santa Margarita, CA 93453
> > Voice :805-438-5600 Fax: 805-438-4607 VMail: 805-546-4875
> > email: wrmiller at slonet.org
> > License No. C-10-773985
> > _____________________________________________________________
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> > _____________________________________________________________
> > "I stand by all the misstatements that I've made." Dan Quayle
> > __________________________________________________________________
> >
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> 
> 
> 



Jim Hartley
http://www.homestead-specialties.com
JamesHartley at homestead-specialties.com
Direct Email: grail at inil.com
630-584-8780
630-584-9092 FAX

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